Darkvision Ruins Dungeon-Crawling

[Bill Zebub]

Darkvision ruins dungeon crawling because dungeon crawling is basically survival horror, and the darkness is the scariest element of all. It isn't about mystery, it is about fear.

This.

Shadowdark really figured this out and embraced it.

And this.

 

[Bill Zebub]

Torches are a resource that needs to be spent like any other, but it doesn't seem to be in vogue to keep track of those things these days.

Not just a consumable resource, but one that requires a free hand. And can be attacked. And affects positioning.

 

[payn]

I think the 5E approach to dungeon crawling was "yeah you can do it but it aint a focus". Which is actually the general approach of 5E it seems.

 

[overgeeked]

Agree 100%. It’s not about the darkvision per se, as others say, they just use light sources. It’s about tone and resource management which brings immersion. Wandering around with your last torch that’s sputtering and could go out at any moment is a wildly different feel than everyone can just see everything all the time. It is so much more fun with Dragonbane and OSR-style exploration, i.e. resources and light sources matter.

 

[payn]

Not just a consumable resource, but one that requires a free hand. And can be attacked. And affects positioning.

Oh yeah I remember every one who carried a shield had a sconce attachement. In PF1 we just got ioun torches. Hands free for the win!

 

[Bill Zebub]

Oh yeah I remember every one who carried a shield had a sconce attachement.

In Shadowdark I would totally allow that.

But I would also improvise a mechanic for determining if the torch goes out every time the character is attacked. (Something like, "if the attack misses by either 1 or 2, your torch is destroyed.")

My favorite light-related Shadowdark anecdote: we tried to hide from a monster that was too powerful for us. In the dark. It sniffed us out and we entered combat in the pitch dark. The wizard tried to cast a spell, and fumbled with a Nat 1. He rolled on the mishap table, and ended up shining with a bright purple aura. Suddenly able to see, he sprinted for the exit, we all followed the purple light, and we got away.

Luckiest mishap ever.

 

[Li Shenron]

A human and a grue sit at an inn's common room (just go with it), talking about their quests.

Mystery is a big part of fantasy. What we can't see is mysterious. We can't see in the dark. Darkvision allows us to see in the dark.

Ergo, darkvision ruins fantasy. Dungeon-crawling, in particular.

Agree or disagree? Does everyone in your party have darkvision? Does your GM remember to enforce darkness rules (if any)?

I mostly agree.

On the bright side, Darkvision usually has a range limit that normal vision does not have. That actually means that even creatures with Darkvision sometime want light sources. Guards and sentinels with darkvision may still largely prefer to see an approaching foe long before it enters its darkvision range.

As a GM despite my best efforts I do often forget that different characters have different vision... I would really want to make light ranges matter, but often I just resort to having a whole room lit for everyone for simplicity.

 

[R_J_K75]

Darkvision doesn't ruin fantasy, the mechanic itself ruins gameplay. Every time I lay out a scenario and a player interrupts, "but my character has darkvision", my first response is screw your darkvision. I'm seriously considering removing it from my game as a PC option and replacing it with nothing. At least when it was infravision it let the DM the describe what the character "saw" without giving everything away in detail and let the player interpret it as they wanted.

 

[Warpiglet-7]

Apply the existing rules. Constant disadvantage for perception is a thing right? It would be worse if you are on unfamiliar ground. I know not to walk “back there” but an intruder does not.

Also, what about a mixed party? If you walk ahead, alone to get the benefit of dark vision…cost benefit a analysis…you might get boned.

It you are a party with light sources, you are not surprising “them” but they could surprise “you.”

It’s just a feature of you apply the rules and a double edged sword possibly.

But the fact is lax rules application happens. We get tired…and at times it reduces mystery I suppose. But can you read with darkvision? Make out colored words from the background? Black and white and disadvantage are not perfect senses…

 

[Mannahnin]

Apply the existing rules. Constant disadvantage for perception is a thing right? It would be worse if you are on unfamiliar ground. I know not to walk “back there” but an intruder does not.

Also, what about a mixed party? If you walk ahead, alone to get the benefit of dark vision…cost benefit a analysis…you might get boned.

It you are a party with light sources, you are not surprising “them” but they could surprise “you.”

It’s just a feature of you apply the rules and a double edged sword possibly.

But the fact is lax rules application happens. We get tired…and at times it reduces mystery I suppose. But can you read with darkvision? Make out colored words from the background? Black and white and disadvantage are not perfect senses…

This.

While I love what Shadowdark does, and I appreciate games like His Majesty the Worm and The Nightmares Underneath that also do away with darkvision, if you actually apply the rules, it's not really broken, and dungeon crawls are still very doable.

Disadvantage on perception, inability to read or distinguish color... these are real drawbacks.