Darkvision Ruins Dungeon-Crawling

[Micah Sweet]

Darkvision is mandatory for certain roles, primarily for scouting but also for stealth in general. As this is a part of the game both I and my players enjoy. I am making darkvision much less common in my next campaign; the goblins will now be using torches and campfires just like everybody else.

People scouted and used stealth in real life without darvision or its equivalent for a long time, so I don't see how it can be "mandatory".

 

[R_J_K75]

AD&D had much more granular memorization rules. Down to how much time per spell level to memorize, and you could replace unused spells, though you didn't have to.

Oh yeah, I remember times being stuck in dungeons when you got up in levels sometimes you had to pick and choose which spells to memorize and which spells to keep open because it just took so much time to memorize your full allotment of spells. I always thought that in AD&D1E & 2E once you memorized a spell that spot was taken up and the only way free it was to use the spell or choose to "forget" it. I don't remember being able to swap out spells at will. I can't quote it, but I seem to remember the rules stating the opposite that you couldn't.

To my recollection even 2E AD&D is missing the dungeon exploration procedures, despite keeping the 10 minute Turn as a unit of time.

I don't recall the dungeon exploration procedures so I'm assuming that was in 1E? I didnt DM too much 1E and someone stole my 1E hardcovers around 87-88 and by the time I gave up on getting them back I moved on to 2E.

One of my greatest experiences in online play during the height of the pandemic was a B/X game of Stonehell

Sounds like a good time. I always liked the idea of VTTs but I always spent more time figuring them out than I did planning for the session, so I gave up. The play experience just isn't the same. Matter of fact, I think that game where I was having trouble getting things to work was the last time we used Roll20. By that point Spring had come and we all decided we'd rather play in my garage and risk getting COVID than play over a VTT.

 

[Bae'zel]

I've come to accept dark vision as a permanent aspect of most species by doing 2 things:

1. Ensuring that the limitations of dim light are strictly kept;
2. Embracing the "mythic underworld" aspect of dark dungeons.

So dim light makes everything "lightly obscured", so Perception checks are at a disadvantage. Also a lot of visual nuance is lost (colors and small details are harder to discern). And in dark, haunted places, the darkness is "alive" and must be kept at bay or else strange things happen...

I mean, there's a REASON why dwarves and elves like light sources, even if they can see in total darkness. Hell even the Drow have their cities bathed in faery fire.

 

[Bill Zebub]

People scouted and used stealth in real life without darvision or its equivalent for a long time, so I don't see how it can be "mandatory".

We do some scouting in Shadowdark, but it's a tricky decision when there's no light: does the scout creep along in the dark, or carry a light (e.g. hooded lantern) and risk being seen?

 

[Mannahnin]

People scouted and used stealth in real life without darvision or its equivalent for a long time, so I don't see how it can be "mandatory".

Because those people were doing that by daylight, moonlight or starlight, not in pitch blackness underground. Scouting when you literally can't see your hand in front of your face is virtually impossible.

Thankfully this can be mitigated a good deal if we assume that in dungeons many monsters DO use light and fire, for reading, heat, cooking, etc.

 

[GrimCo]

I voted no. I don't mind darkvision at all. It's same as going in with NODs. You see, but it's not nice and crisp like with regular sight.

You know what scarier than dark and danky old abandoned dungeon? Well lit, clean, old abandoned dungeon.

When it comes to range of darkvision in dungeons, it's really not that big of a deal. 60-90 feet is plenty of range. Most buildings (or natural caverns) don't have very long straight hallways, cause that's just bad architectural design ( and waste of space). Short hallways with intersections, rooms adjacent to one another. If monster is around corner, you won't spot it, no matter darkvision or light source.

As for light as resource, even back in 3ed days, we weren't fussing with naughty word torches. Bullseye lantern that could be attached to armor and pint or two of oil ( useful for other things too) and you're good to go for full working day. In 5e, where cantrips are so easily available, Light cantrip is no brainer.

 

[Micah Sweet]

We do some scouting in Shadowdark, but it's a tricky decision when there's no light: does the scout creep along in the dark, or carry a light (e.g. hooded lantern) and risk being seen?

I like tricky decisions. That's where the fun is.

 

[Reynard]

I like tricky decisions. That's where the fun is.

Choices and consequences are what RPGs are all about, IMO.

 

[Corinnguard]

We do some scouting in Shadowdark, but it's a tricky decision when there's no light: does the scout creep along in the dark, or carry a light (e.g. hooded lantern) and risk being seen?

If you happen to be playing the 2024 version of the Dwarf, you can use their Stonecunning feature and sense what's around you via Tremorsense. It works on natural or worked stone for up to 60 feet and up to 10 minutes. Uses of this feature is tied to your PB. The only thing that this feature won't help you with is any monster that flies, floats or is incorporeal (by nature or magic).

 

[Bill Zebub]

Because those people were doing that by moonlight or starlight, not in pitch blackness underground. Scouting when you literally can't see your hand in front of your face is virtually impossible.

Thankfully this can be mitigated a good deal if we assume that in dungeons many monsters DO use light and fire, for reading, heat, cooking, etc.

How did soldiers scout tunnels on pacific islands in WWII? Or how did the "Tunnel Rats" do it in Viet Nam? Those places were pitch black.

(I assume they carried lights, which meant they were also at risk of being spotted.)