Dragonbane general thread

Aldarc · Jan 21, 2025

overgeeked said:
Yeah. The best workaround for that I've found so far is don't bother with the rules. Don't try to teach them the mechanics. Start with "Tell me what you want to do and I'll tell you what happens." Anything mechanical is on me and handled in my head. Step one in teaching RPGs is, to me, teaching that very ability to do anything. If you start from there the player tends ot keep their head in that "I can try anything" space rather than starting from the mechanics and all the limitations that come with them.

Session #1 with my partner: "Don't look at your character sheet. Look at me please and tell me what your character would do."

overgeeked · Jan 21, 2025

Aldarc said:
Session #1 with my partner: "Don't look at your character sheet. Look at me please and tell me what your character would do."

"What do you want to do? The answer isn't on your character sheet."

Aldarc · Jan 21, 2025

overgeeked said:
"What do you want to do? The answer isn't on your character sheet."

I generally avoid that sort of phrasing since it can sound a bit passive aggressive and/or overly critical, particularly of other games, which I don't think is entirely warranted. I think that it's fair that players may want to look at what resources, abilities, or tricks that they may have on their character sheets. However, I just wanted my partner to focus on fiction so I could introduce mechanics as needed.

Bill Zebub · Jan 21, 2025

So my grand plan to run a group of kids through the boxed set adventures and then Path of Glory has crashed against their desire to play overpowered characters that wtfpwn monsters.

Wolfpack48 · Jan 21, 2025

Bill Zebub said:
So my grand plan to run a group of kids through the boxed set adventures and then Path of Glory has crashed against their desire to play overpowered characters that wtfpwn monsters.

I'd say just buff their characters and let them steamroll some monsters in Dragonbane, then gradually make it a bit tougher as you go...

You can houserule more HP, or give them another Heroic Ability or two... Kids are gonna wanna powergame.

aramis erak · Jan 22, 2025

overgeeked said:
Yeah, the referee can really make a difference if they do that stuff to the PCs. It gets them really thinking about and interacting with the environment. Lead by example and all that. Most times it works, other times...not so much. First time running Dragonbane I made a point of having an overabundance of improvised weapons specifically to show the players they could use such things, and made a point of telling them they could improvise outside the cards. Even had the NPCs use several of the improvised weapons to show how cool they were. So what did the PCs do? Proceed to move into position, stand stock still, and hack away at the NPCs until they died. Never even considered using the improvised weapons. After the session I asked why. "It's a waste of a turn. It's more optimal to just attack." Shrug.

For me, I gave up D&D (for the most part) in High School, in favor of Traveller¹, Twilight 2000, Traveller: 2300¹, MegaTraveller¹, and GURPS...

...but early in Sophomore year, on a rain-out from school², I was introduced to Melee and Wizard... and soon got Dragons of Underearth. Took me years to get a legit copy of In the Labyrinth... but DoU was enough to treat Advanced Melee, Advanced Wizard, and DoU as a nearly complete RPG.

And it made me take dungeoneering extremely tactically. Later, after Basic Training, I got Dragon 127, and read Ed Greenwood's Editorial on Tucker's Kobolds...

Ed Greenwood said:
They graduated magna cum laude from the Sauron Institute for the Criminally Vicious.

ibid. said:
The group resigned itself to making a run for it through Level One to get to the elevators, where we could go down to Level Ten and fight “okay” monsters like huge flaming demons. It didn't work. The kobolds caught us about 60' into the dungeon and locked the door behind us and barred it. Then they set the corridor on fire, while we were still in it.

These are my favorite bits from the article. It let me feel good that someone at TSR thought it great to make kobolds devious little «bleep»ers... I wasn't running much D&D at the time...(In fact, that summer, I ran CP2020 and MegaTraveller.)
If I took that approach with the PCs in Dragonbane, I'd wipe the walls with them...

¹: Traveller as in Classic Traveller; MT is essentially CT crossbred with its minis wargame, Striker, both nominally in the Official Traveller Universe. T:2300 is a different game, different attribute list and scaling, different but related character gen mode (which would be tweaked into T2K 2.0/2.2), and setting
²: The rain on top of the icy roads saw the school-bus miss the turn to my street, and stop within inches of falling into the actual V-cut portion of the Eagle River Valley...)

overgeeked · Jan 22, 2025

aramis erak said:
And it made me take dungeoneering extremely tactically. Later, after Basic Training, I got Dragon 127, and read Ed Greenwood's Editorial on Tucker's Kobolds...

These are my favorite bits from the article. It let me feel good that someone at TSR thought it great to make kobolds devious little «bleep»ers... I wasn't running much D&D at the time...(In fact, that summer, I ran CP2020 and MegaTraveller.)

I absolutely love Tucker's Kobolds. Great article and great bit of RPG history. I'm far more a fan of combat as war than combat as sport. But yeah, it can easily go too far.

aramis erak said:
If I took that approach with the PCs in Dragonbane, I'd wipe the walls with them...

So I'm noticing. I started one fight with two archers and four melee against five PCs. This is one of the scripted fights in a canned adventure. I didn't even use any real tactics other than "melee guard the archers" and it nearly resulted in a TPK. I cannot imagine what proper small unit tactics style play would do. But, to be fair, the players were rolling crap the whole time.

This is the same group I mentioned above who stood stock still, refused to move, and refused to use improvised weapons. This is also the group who's knight tank in plate and closed helm put his highest stat in INT and only has a 10 in swords, his main weapon. A caster who was so afraid of taking an opportunity attack that he stayed in melee for five rounds taking hits almost every round. Luckily he dodged most or I rolled low damage.

The modern attitude of "LOL it doesn't matter what I do because I can never lose and never die LOL" can go do nasty things to itself.

Again, modern games have a lot to answer for.

Wolfpack48 · Jan 22, 2025

overgeeked said:
So I'm noticing. I started one fight with two archers and four melee against five PCs. This is one of the scripted fights in a canned adventure. I didn't even use any real tactics other than "melee guard the archers" and it nearly resulted in a TPK. I cannot imagine what proper small unit tactics style play would do. But, to be fair, the players were rolling crap the whole time.

This is the same group I mentioned above who stood stock still, refused to move, and refused to use improvised weapons. This is also the group who's knight tank in plate and closed helm put his highest stat in INT and only has a 10 in swords, his main weapon. A caster who was so afraid of taking an opportunity attack that he stayed in melee for five rounds taking hits almost every round. Luckily he dodged most or I rolled low damage.

The modern attitude of "LOL it doesn't matter what I do because I can never lose and never die LOL" can go do nasty things to itself.

Again, modern games have a lot to answer for.

This sounds like a number of problems from different directions:

1) A group unfamiliar with military tactics (probably most roleplayers, lol), so this one might need some help from the GM. Idea roll to see that there's a hill that will give advantage or a set of crates that will give good cover.

2) For the bad rolls, reminding them that they can push and/or use Heroic Abilities that can minimize that bad luck.

3) A knight that isn't using stats for the profession they've chosen. Maybe give the opportunity to switch around some stats/skills to align things?

4) Building understanding that mages usually stay out of the thick of combat and cast spells at a safe distance, perhaps using said cover in (1) above

5) Perhaps saying ahead of time, "you WILL TPK if you continue to rush headlong into combat without thinking. I'd rather let you know that now rather than finding out in the middle of the game."