D&D (2024) Githzerai Psion? Thri-kreen Psion? Where's My Psion?

[Micah Sweet]

The answer is simple. They shouldn't. And I'm of the opinion that Barbarian should be a fighter subclass.

Then you want D&D to be a game with less mechanical differentiation between PC classes, right? It's been a very, very long time since that's even kinda been the case.

 

[TwoSix]

You don't think current D&D players understand the concept of psychics and mental powers?

Based on the post above, I have that feeling that psionics is one of those points on which class minimalists (classes should be few and broad) and class maximalists (classes should be many and specific) exhibit a very sharp divide.

 

[Micah Sweet]

No. Not part of current pop culture.

You've said things like this before when we were talking about the fey. Can you explain what the kids are into nowadays and therefore what D&D should apparently limit itself to, since it sounds like you have objective answers in this area? I'm sorry, but I don't really understand the basis of your perspective.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Based on the post above, I have that feeling that psionics is one of those points on which class minimalists (classes should be few and broad) and class maximalists (classes should be many and specific) exhibit a very sharp divide.

And I doubt I need to tell anyone on this forum exactly how I feel about class minimalism.

Believe it or not, though, I'm not keen on class "maximalism" either. I find that that direction usually leads to its own share of problems. That's why I sat down and identified what I, personally, consider to be the 25 class-fantasy ideas that are the most reasonable fits for both the specific slice of fiction D&D generally aims at, and for the kinds of mechanics that are reasonably workable within D&D. Which, yes, means that 5e--even if you include the Artificer--is doing only about half the classes I'd like to see.

I'm quite well aware that the idea of even a double-digit number of classes is offensive to most class minimalists, and going past two dozen is probably enough to induce foaming at the mouth. I am quite unmoved by this fact.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

You've said things like this before when we were talking about the fey. Can you explain what the kids are into nowadays and therefore what D&D should apparently limit itself to, since it sounds like you have objective answers in this area? I'm sorry, but I don't really understand the basis of your perspective.

I don't have objective answers, and it's constantly a case of playing catch up because it changes so fast, but my job certainly positions me to make observations. But frankly, I'm most amazed at just how badly out of touch people on these forums are. Does no one talk to kids? Does no one look at what books people are reading on the train, or are prominently displayed at the station book counter? Does no one play D&D with people who are 30 years younger than them? I have noticed people stating to cotton on to Romantasy, but that's a couple of years old. The current big thing is The Fourth Wing, which is currently on it's third book.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

I don't have objective answers, and it's constantly a case of playing catch up because it changes so fast, but my job certainly positions me to make observations. But frankly, I'm most amazed at just how badly out of touch people on these forums are. Does no one talk to kids? Does no one look what books people are reading on the train, or are prominently displayed at the station book counter? Does no one play D&D with people who are 30 years younger than them? I have noticed people stating to cotton on to Romantasy, but that's a couple of years old. The current big thing is The Fourth Wing, which is currently on it's third book.

If you expect something as large and complex as a tabletop game to be not only keeping current as in within the past decade, but within the past two years, you really are expecting the impossible.

And I find that stance absolutely, completely hilarious when contrasted with your prior argument, that boiled down to, "Eh? What? That's not how 1e did it, so there's no reason for it to exist." Which no, I don't accept your "argument" from earlier. You are demanding that a justification be given, and if one isn't given, then the thing shouldn't exist. That's the core of your point here. Unless you get a clear, objective, agreeable justification, the thing not only can but should be ejected, and you have dismissed several reasons that other things, including things you like, are included in D&D.

Evidently, what's good for the Cleric, which has absolutely no basis whatsoever in any fiction anyone today would be reading, isn't good enough for the Psion.

 

[TwoSix]

And I doubt I need to tell anyone on this forum exactly how I feel about class minimalism.

Believe it or not, though, I'm not keen on class "maximalism" either. I find that that direction usually leads to its own share of problems. That's why I sat down and identified what I, personally, consider to be the 25 class-fantasy ideas that are the most reasonable fits for both the specific slice of fiction D&D generally aims at, and for the kinds of mechanics that are reasonably workable within D&D. Which, yes, means that 5e--even if you include the Artificer--is doing only about half the classes I'd like to see.

I'm quite well aware that the idea of even a double-digit number of classes is offensive to most class minimalists, and going past two dozen is probably enough to induce foaming at the mouth. I am quite unmoved by this fact.

Fair. I also lean towards the maximalist camp; for fantasy games, I prefer class approaches like Shadow of the Demon Lord/Weird Wizard, where there are dozens of class options that open up during the leveling process, or Fabula Ultima, where there are a dozen classes but multiclassing is required.

I think to make psionics work for a class minimalist, it requires a change to the underpinnings of the cosmology, such that psychic powers have a home akin to divine or arcane powers. Class minimalists, to me, shares some aesthetic preferences with Great Wheel devotees; there's an appreciation for symmetry and a desire to have everything fit into a certain place. Class maximalism is more akin to the World Axis, there can be as many classes as there are domains in the Astral, each one telling its own particular story.

 

[TwoSix]

I don't have objective answers, and it's constantly a case of playing catch up because it changes so fast, but my job certainly positions me to make observations. But frankly, I'm most amazed at just how badly out of touch people on these forums are. Does no one talk to kids? Does no one look at what books people are reading on the train, or are prominently displayed at the station book counter? Does no one play D&D with people who are 30 years younger than them? I have noticed people stating to cotton on to Romantasy, but that's a couple of years old. The current big thing is The Fourth Wing, which is currently on it's third book.

Considering I discovered that a LOT of people in my age cohort had no idea who Kendrick Lamar was last night, yea, I would say that a lot of people stop keepng up once they hit their 30s or so.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

If you expect something as large and complex as a tabletop game to be not only keeping current as in within the past decade, but within the past two years, you really are expecting the impossible.

It certainly can (and must) keep up with the current decade. The development cycle for a D&D book is about two and a half years. But good designers try to anticipate future trends, not follow them.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Fair. I also lean towards the maximalist camp; for fantasy games, I prefer class approaches like Shadow of the Demon Lord/Weird Wizard, where there are dozens of class options that open up during the leveling process, or Fabula Ultima, where there are a dozen classes but multiclassing is required.

I think to make psionics work for a class minimalist, it requires a change to the underpinnings of the cosmology, such that psychic powers have a home akin to divine or arcane powers. Class minimalists, to me, shares some aesthetic preferences with Great Wheel devotees; there's an appreciation for symmetry and a desire to have everything fit into a certain place. Class maximalism is more akin to the World Axis, there can be as many classes as there are domains in the Astral, each one telling its own particular story.

Well, I like lots of classes and the Great Wheel, but I'm funny that way .