D&D (2024) New Constructs, Plants, Beasts & Humanoids | 2024 Monster Manual | D&D

[UngeheuerLich]

page 56 of the DMG Creating a Creature

No. Not really sufficient.

The DMG 2014 table was more useful.

The guidelines on page 56 are lacking. They tell you to not do things (like changing str/dex/con or adding temp hp abilities).

Orcs do have a don't die abilitiy and one that grants a minimal amount of tenp hp for example. What should you do to make a stablock orcish?

I guess: adding the old "aggressive" to rush into combat and darkvision might be ok.
A little help would have been nice. One single page.

Maybe a line that says:
Add PHB species traits. IF you do that for CR < 1 humanoids, this usually increases CR usually by one step. After that it does not.
Or: add trait X and instead of Trait Y add trait Z if you don't want to increase CR.

One thing I noted: CR 1 and CR 1/2 are very close to gether statwise.

A dire wolf has lower HP than a worg, and only +1 AC, +1 damage and better stealth and a bit more reliable advantage on attacks.
I think the same is true for humanoids. CR 1/8 and CR 1/4 and CR 1/2 sometimes have same HP or same damage, but are lacking in the other statistic.

 

[pukunui]

Instead I have to pull up a Pirate (or whatever), reskin it as Drow, add Drow racial traits, hold my finger up in the air and feel if the wind blowing says it's a +1 CR or not for adding in those racial traits.

Species traits aren't going to affect the CR unless they alter the stat block's AC, hit points, attack bonus, or damage. Everything else is basically just a ribbon.

Add PHB species traits.

They seem to be radically downplaying species as a whole. I mean, just look at the new PHB: the species are practically hidden in the middle of the book. There isn't even a breakdown of the available species in the DDB contents page like there was for the 2014 PHB (although there is one in the print version).

2014 PHB DDB contents page:

2024 PHB DDB contents page:

... in the humaniod section we find out Evil Drow of Lolth are reappearing in one of the FR products (no doubt the FRAG), and going forward humaniod stats with actual species flavour baked in are exclusive to setting books, because it's based on culture/history of a setting.

That's what I've been expecting all along. They've stripped the core books of all but the most generic bits of lore so they can get more specific with each setting - and creatures can thus have different origins, cultures, etc in different settings without contradicting the core.

 

[Parmandur]

for this to work some more setting books need to be released though. Dragonlance, Ravenloft more 'urgently', PS and maybe SJ only need a little freshening up, and FR and Eberron are on the way already. Without additional support everything but Eberron is just FR

Well, sure, obviously: this move makes it easier to release said other Settong books, which we know they are working on.

 

[Azzy]

Well, sure, obviously: this move makes it easier to release said other Settong books, which we know they are working on.

Dark Sun confirmed!

 

[Parmandur]

Oh man, "buy another book to get a few Drow for your campaign" is so not in any way the "perfect solution." They could have included a few in the MM, like they have every MM for decades, and then included some more variations in a setting book. That would have been much better.

Instead I have to pull up a Pirate (or whatever), reskin it as Drow, add Drow racial traits, hold my finger up in the air and feel if the wind blowing says it's a +1 CR or not for adding in those racial traits.

It is part of a whole product plan thst explains why they did what they did: a future Dark Sun book doesn't need to worry about contrary lore in the MM.

 

[Parmandur]

Dark Sun confirmed!

Well, my thought exactly. A future Dark Dub product doesn't need to spend time saying there are no Frow or Deep Gnomes or whatver.

 

[Parmandur]

@Henadic Theologian note well, that Todd said that they had multiple Setting books coming up, but he cannot talk about some of them.

I also think this means that FRAG is going to have a fat Bestiary.

 

[Selas]

No. Not really sufficient.

The DMG 2014 table was more useful.

The guidelines on page 56 are lacking. They tell you to not do things (like changing str/dex/con or adding temp hp abilities).

Orcs do have a don't die abilitiy and one that grants a minimal amount of tenp hp for example. What should you do to make a stablock orcish?

I guess: adding the old "aggressive" to rush into combat and darkvision might be ok.
A little help would have been nice. One single page.

Maybe a line that says:
Add PHB species traits. IF you do that for CR < 1 humanoids, this usually increases CR usually by one step. After that it does not.
Or: add trait X and instead of Trait Y add trait Z if you don't want to increase CR.

One thing I noted: CR 1 and CR 1/2 are very close to gether statwise.

A dire wolf has lower HP than a worg, and only +1 AC, +1 damage and better stealth and a bit more reliable advantage on attacks.
I think the same is true for humanoids. CR 1/8 and CR 1/4 and CR 1/2 sometimes have same HP or same damage, but are lacking in the other statistic.

I mean, JC straight-out says in the video to use the PHB species traits to make them fit the fantasy.

IMO, none of the PHB species traits alter the statblocks significantly enough to change CR in a bad way, so what if that makes it a bit more challenging? I say that's good

 

[Mistwell]

Species traits aren't going to affect the CR unless they alter the stat block's AC, hit points, attack bonus, or damage. Everything else is basically just a ribbon.

So let's start with Drow:

Add Dancing Lights, Faerie Fire, and Darkness to an NPC statblock.
Faerie Fire gives advantage to you and all allies.
Darkness gives advantage to attack and disadvantage for them to attack.

Alteration to AC, attack bonus, and damage or not?

I'd say yes, it definitely has an impact on CR. Do you disagree?

Now Orc:

Adrenaline Rush: You can take the Dash action as a Bonus Action. When you do so, you gain a number of Temporary Hit Points equal to your Proficiency Bonus.

Relentless Endurance (1xday): When you are reduced to 0 Hit Points but not killed outright, you can drop to 1 Hit Point instead.

Adrenaline Rush: alters hit points
Relentless Endurance: Alters hit points, essentially allows you to live an extra turn.

I'd say yes, there definitely have an impact on CR. Do you disagree?

Assuming you either agree both alter CR, or at least you can see why some would think it might alter CR, can we now address the post I made to begin with which is IT WOULD BE NICE IF THEY INCLUDED THEM TO KNOW WHAT THE CR ALTERATION IS OR IS NOT AND THIS IS NOT IN FACT THE "PERFECT" WAY TO DO IT?

 

[Mistwell]

It is part of a whole product plan thst explains why they did what they did: a future Dark Sun book doesn't need to worry about contrary lore in the MM.

I don't need lore, I need to know what the friggen CR is of a Drow or Orc Pirate which has the species trait of a Drow or Orc added to the Pirate NPC template which does in fact impact critical elements such as AC, Hit Points, Attack and Damage. And they didn't include that analysis at all. The DMG guidance doesn't answer that question for either species, the video doesn't give that analysis for either species, people (when they finally start to directly talk about the species traits involved rather than dodging the question by talking about generalities) disagree about the CR impact or even try to tell people they simply wouldn't add species traits many will obviously want to add, and then we're all left with a huge vague "figure it out for yourself."