D&D General Drow & Orcs Removed from the Monster Manual

[Chaosmancer]

They are not making diddly. They are at best acquiring.

A completely fair distinction

 

[Bedrockgames]

So, because you do not play video games, you cannot comment on the fact that there are many male "gamers" who rage and protest at games for featuring "ugly" women instead of unrealistic pin-up models boobily breasting across the screen? What part of actually playing a video game do you think would give you additional, needed insight?

I am not involved enough in that media to know anything about the context and how reliable your description of the situation is. But video games just aren't of interest to me.

I wonder what the difference might be between the people I interact and follow and the people you talk to? I mean, the only major changes on this level to Van Richten's guide were removing racist stereotypes, like a black rapist who turns into a beast. Is that the sort of thinking and game design you are hearing people complaining about stifling their ability to make the art they want?

I am not going to discuss this with you if you are going to take this rhetorical approach. I was in the threads on the development for the new Ravenloft book and I found a lot of the changes to be misguided. Some just felt off (like making it multi genre horror instead of sticking with he gothic horror that is in my opinion its essence), some felt like they were well intentioned but trying to check off too many ideological boxes (stuff like Alanic Ray). In terms of stereotypes, I think people were identifying a lot of things as problematic that weren't.

 

[Bedrockgames]

I think telling disabled people that they need a computer to generate art for them, based on a written prompt, is crummy. And bringing up disabled people, who to my knowledge have never made this claim, as a human shield to deflect criticism of people too lazy to put in the effort to make art is even worse.

I have a disability. I am not using disability as a shield. I brought it up because for me it is personal. But I do think it was unfair for me to say that to you. I don't think you meant anything by it. So I retract the crummy part. But I do think this is an area of AI that we should be open to exploring because I think it would be helpful to people. I play music for example and there are lots of people who have disabilities who can still play (Django Reinhardt is a popular figure among guitar players to site). But if someone was physically or mentally unable to play an instrument, but wanted to write music, if AI could help them, I think would be could because I know how cathartic composition can be)

 

[Bedrockgames]

Or, you know, this is completely different and you are just trying to scare monger to drive people to reject a change out of fear.

I am not trying to scare monger. I think my criticism has been fairly mild

 

[Maxperson]

On whether the artist creates the art or AI creates the art, the answer is both yes and no.

If the artist just asks the AI to make an male elven archer and it does, the artist did not create the art.

If the artist has a very specific concept in mind and fine tunes it with the AI. i.e. Make the eyes greener. No, that's too green. Lighten them a hair. Now widen the eyes a little bit. That's good. Put a scar over the right eye. That's too large and straight. Shorten it and make it more jagged. And so on. Then it's an artist using an AI tool to create his own art, just like classical artists used the paintbrush and paint tools to create their own art.

The problem is that the line between the AI creating the art and the artist creating the art with the AI tool is really blurry and no one knows where the hell that line is right now.

 

[CleverNickName]

Best quote in the whole thread.

They are not making diddly. They are at best acquiring.

 

[Maxperson]

Best quote in the whole thread.

Except that it's wrong. See my post above. It can be creating if the artist exercises enough creative control.

 

[CleverNickName]

Except that it's wrong. See my post above. It can be creating if the artist exercises enough creative control.

I guess it depends on how badly you want to argue over the word "enough."

 

[pemerton]

Another factor in OG AD&D that made or negligible was 3d6 rolled in order, at least in theory.

Actually, this isn't correct for Gygax's AD&D, which recommends other methods - in the DMG - that will tend to give higher scores.

I think is correct as the default for AD&D 2nd ed.

 

[Bedrockgames]

I guess it depends on how badly you want to argue over the word "enough."

I suspect such an argument could go on for weeks