D&D (2024) Martial/Caster fix.

[Minigiant]

Personally, I don't think giving Martials Spells (5e), Powers (4e), or Traditions (late 3.5e/A5e) is the solution.

IMHO: Martials should just get better stats and actions.

And that is either by upgrading their at-wills. In 5e words, Upgrading Weapon Masteries when tiers increase. The same way spells do.

WOTC just missed the boat: Weapon Grandmastery and Armor Mastery.

Like the problem with the Shield spell is that it's how a high level fighter should play not a wizard

"Nope. I parry. My AC get +5"
"I Cleave the fire in half with my magic sword. Resistance to the damage"

 

[Corinnguard]

And that is either by upgrading their at-wills. In 5e words, Upgrading Weapon Masteries when tiers increase. The same way spells do.

So, what would an upgrade of Nick and Hex look like at a higher tier of game play?

 

[Minigiant]

4E works better at higher level is mostly theoretical. And you need the monster Vault

4e works better at high level mostly because the other editions are barely functioning at high level.

 

[Minigiant]

So, what would an upgrade of Nick and Hex look like at a higher tier of game play?

It wouldn't be direct upgrades in all cases.

A Light Hammer, Scimitar, and Dagger would keep Nick.

A Light Hammer could get Stammer which prevents the Disengage and Dodge actions.
A Scimitar could get Slice (Nick 2.0) that offers a 2nd offhand attack.
A Dagger could get Flutter that lets you make an attack as part of the Dodge attack.

But true and good implementation requires redoing a lot of 5e Martials.

 

[CreamCloud0]

Personally, I don't think giving Martials Spells (5e), Powers (4e), or Traditions (late 3.5e/A5e) is the solution.

IMHO: Martials should just get better stats and actions.

And that is either by upgrading their at-wills. In 5e words, Upgrading Weapon Masteries when tiers increase. The same way spells do.

WOTC just missed the boat: Weapon Grandmastery and Armor Mastery.

Like the problem with the Shield spell is that it's how a high level fighter should play not a wizard

"Nope. I party. My AC get +5"
"I Cleave the fire in half with my magic sword. Resistance to the damage"

while i do think Martial Powers are something they should have to some degree i think what they really ought to get is a more extensive catalogue of basic options available to all martials (and only martials), like, too much martial stuff is sectioned off into feats, class abilities or just isn't in the game at all, something like defensive duelist's parry or charger's dash attack is something all martials should just be able to do, fighting styles, maneuvres, stances, taunting, obstructing, all of these things should be ground level tools of the martial kit.

casters have this whole list of options while so much of what martials do is just trade simple blows.

 

[Corinnguard]

casters have this whole list of options while so much of what martials do is just trade simple blows.

This is why combat maneuvers are a must for martials. They provide a list of thematic options that are the equivalent of spells.

 

[TheSword]

There's practically only one way to make sure that the players cannot long rest after each combat, and that is to make sure every combat is chained into every other combat, and you need to have time pressure.

It's known that the best way to run D&D is to make it very dungeon focused and to have it take place far from a town or civilisation.

As I said, I think the easiest fix to this problem is to make all classes rely equally much on long rests and short rests.

One alternative solution is to play locations like living areas. If the party wipe out one room of the dungeon and then try to rest it is likely that the remaining creatures will discover this and group together/take precautionary measures etc. Their rest will be interrupted. Moving at pace therefore conveys a tactical advantage to PCs and there will be pressure not to long rest at the drop of a hat. To be clear this doesn’t require a doom clock. It just requires playing foes intelligently.

Second alternative is to fight fire with fire and have more casters in the foes you use. They are able to retreat with magic. If the PCs take long rests to regain power then the foes do the same. Hit and run caster attacks should encourage them to press on.

Third alternative is to have an honest conversation with your players to say that resting after every combat is dull for you as the GM because of the 24 hour limit. If you want to play like that, please find another game.

That said, some groups don’t need these kinds of responses. The social contract means they just don’t game the system like this out of mutual respect for the DM and each other. It’s pretty selfish to expect everyone else to stop adventuring because one player has splurged there power in one go.

 

[M_Natas]

One alternative solution is to play locations like living areas. If the party wipe out one room of the dungeon and then try to rest it is likely that the remaining creatures will discover this and group together/take precautionary measures etc. Their rest will be interrupted. Moving at pace therefore conveys a tactical advantage to PCs and there will be pressure not to long rest at the drop of a hat. To be clear this doesn’t require a doom clock. It just requires playing foes intelligently.

Second alternative is to fight fire with fire and have more casters in the foes you use. They are able to retreat with magic. If the PCs take long rests to regain power then the foes do the same. Hit and run caster attacks should encourage them to press on.

Third alternative is to have an honest conversation with your players to say that resting after every combat is dull for you as the GM because of the 24 hour limit. If you want to play like that, please find another game.

That said, some groups don’t need these kinds of responses. The social contract means they just don’t game the system like this out of mutual respect for the DM and each other. It’s pretty selfish to expect everyone else to stop adventuring because one player has splurged there power in one go.

It is not (only) a social contract thing. It is a game design thing.
D&D 5e in both versions give DMs RAW only two options to challenge a party combat wise:
4 deadly to 8 medium encounters in a day (or 15+ rounds of battle) or having one or two double deadly encounter.
Anything else is challengeless. One or two combat encounters in a day that are not double deadly? It will be trivial. The party will blow trough it.
But at the same time, you don't want your random wilderness encounter on the way to the dungeon to be double deadly, but not making it double deadly makes it meaningless, because it becomes trivial.

The ressource reset after an 8 hour long rest is, what hinders other kinds of challenges. It is a big pacing issue and raw 5e only supports one pacing: 6 to 8 encounters inbetween long rests. Nothing else is really supported. That is the problem with the current rules.

 

[Remathilis]

Yawn. This again? Just give fighters "sword magic" and be done with it.

 

[Remathilis]

Simple solutions like increasing damage dice, number of attacks, critical range, ect can solve the same problem.

Nooo! My Reification!