D&D 5E Why Do Higher Levels Get Less Play?

[Maxperson]

Well such a book is guaranteed to sell at least 5% as much as the core rulebooks, which means it will be at least twice as profitable as something like Journey Into the Radiant Citadel.

But I agree with you we are still unlikely to see it.

Probably more than 5%, since that 5% number is the number of people who try to make it work without any support from WotC. If they supported it, more would try it.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Aha. Well theres your answer.

Most D&D Players want to be Aragorn, not The Silver Surfer.

...but maybe if that was an actual choice they could make, more would pick the latter?

 

[Upper_Krust]

All the stories I care about have personal stakes.

Do Superman, Thor or Goku not have stories with personal stakes?

This sounds more like banging action figures together, which is fun on occasion but doesn’t sustain my interest.

Rules for combat (regardless of how devastating the collateral damage is) does not preclude having a story. The two are not mutually exclusive.

I suspect most people feel the same, which is why high level characters are more fun to think about than to actually play.

This thread is discussing the merits and pitfalls of high level play; but I don't think character power has to undermine any story or make things less personal.

 

[Demetrios1453]

I mean, the easiest way to resolve this is to just re-number character levels with binary, and you'll be playing at Levels 11+ in no time!

 

[Quartz]

Heck, even 3e, which had a whole book on epic-level stuff, didn't publish a single epic level adventure.

There were a couple in Dungeon magazine. That's discounting the Adventure Paths.

 

[MerricB]

I mean, the easiest way to resolve this is to just re-number character levels with binary, and you'll be playing at Levels 11+ in no time!

For a few groups... they'd still take several months.

 

[Demetrios1453]

On a more serious note, one thing I'm seeing here and in similar threads is that several posts have mentioned that once you get to higher levels, all you have are "dragons, fiends, and giants." Unfortunately, giants actually top out at CR 13 in the MM. If you want a more representative type of high-CR monsters, undead are a much better option than giants - there's quite a variety of CR 15 or higher in the MM.

Granted, there are higher-CR giants in other books, but that's the same for a lot of other creature types as well. Even if they've been banished from the 2024 MM (although they'll reappear later this year in the FR books), drow in MotM go all the way up to CR 20 (with CR 13, 14, and 18 back-ups). Aberrations as well are a good type of monsters that extend well into high-CR territory in reasonable numbers.

 

[Nightfly]

There is no reason a Player's Handbook 2, Dungeon Master's Guide 2 or Monster Manual 2 could not lean heavier into High and Epic Tier.

WotC has already said they'll never again publish a "(core book) 2" since it can overwhelm new players. But a "So-and-so's Guide To Epic Adventuring" seems possible.

 

[MerricB]

On a more serious note, one thing I'm seeing here and in similar threads is that several posts have mentioned that once you get to higher levels, all you have are "dragons, fiends, and giants." Unfortunately, giants actually top out at CR 13 in the MM. If you want a more representative type of high-CR monsters, undead are a much better option than giants - there's quite a variety of CR 15 or higher in the MM.

One of the interesting things about giants is even though they top out at those CRs, in groups they are still a formidable challenge for the players. Having a good ranged attack (rock) and good attack bonuses does an awful lot of heavy lifting.

I think there is a greater range than just "dragons, fiends, and giants" for very high level threats, but they might not be apparent from just the Monster Manual.

 

[Clint_L]

Do Superman, Thor or Goku not have stories with personal stakes?

Rules for combat (regardless of how devastating the collateral damage is) does not preclude having a story. The two are not mutually exclusive.

Your examples: "You might want to: take the good fight to a Demon Prince, wrestle a Kaiju, time travel, battle a Great Old One, invade Hell and shave Asmodeus' moustache."

This thread is discussing the merits and pitfalls of high level play; but I don't think character power has to undermine any story or make things less personal.

Well, if you've read the thread then you know that I've already answered that point. In detail.