D&D General The blood war can finally end!

[MonsterEnvy]

Again, that never made any sense to me - why focus on the nine hells? Chaos, one would think, doesn't really discriminate. I mena why? What is driving demons to attack devil if not demon lords? How do beings of chaos even form a force to attack if not motivated by a demon lord (or similarly powerful fiend)

Cause they don't like them very much, and it's an acceptable target. Most of the Demons are not stupid and they enjoy rampaging on creatures different to them more than other demons.

Most other creatures believe demons to be little more than mindless engines of destruction and violence. If that supposition were true, the Blood War should have ended long ago, since the tactical and strategic genius of the archdevils would have made quick work of the hordes that erupt from the Abyss. In fact, even though demons are quintessentially chaotic, their evilness combines with that outlook to produce a fiendish, subtle shrewdness. Demon lords and other powerful entities exert control over their armies that enables the forces to accomplish goals that would be beyond the capabilities of a leaderless mob. To the demons that have intelligence enough to appreciate their role in it, the Blood War offers an endless source of diversion underscored by resentment of a cosmic order that refuses to admit their superiority.

As the devils have surmised, the demons invade Avernus because it is easily accessible from the Abyss. But some sages and demonologists maintain that even if that were not the case, the Nine Hells would still be the demons’ prime target. If the demons sent out a large force to invade a different plane, this theory holds, the devils would be able to marshal allies from across all the planes to rise up against the Abyss and end its threat forever. Instead, as long as the demons focus most of their efforts on the doorstep of the Nine Hells, realms such as the Seven Heavens and Bytopia are loath to commit aid to defend a plane that is inimical to everything they stand for by aiding the devils directly.

Therefore, the demons assault the Nine Hells over and over not only because it is the greatest threat to their dominion, but also because striking in force anywhere else would play into the devils’ hands.

 

[dave2008]

Cause they don't like them very much, and it's an acceptable target. Most of the Demons are not stupid and they enjoy rampaging on creatures different to them more than other demons.

That is fine if it works for you; it never seemed like enough justification to me for a cosmic conflict like the Blood War. Now, 4e's explanation did spark my imagination and it inspired me to add the Blood War, to some degree, to my setting.

 

[Weiley31]

It kinda kills me how people would say that Demons/Devils couldn't hurt each other. Didn't most of them have at least the feature "Magic Weapons" in their stat block? And if they didn't, something else to get around issues like that? (Such as Greyon doing Acid or Ice damage with his attacks)? I have too many 5E books to dig thru to check and it's late on my end.

That alone should pretty much ALLOW THEM to still hurt each other normally. Or getting past Raging Barbarian damage resists.

Granted, it's a moot point now that "Magic Weapons" has pretty much been folded into the attacks as Force Damage now.

 

[Zardnaar]

Again, that never made any sense to me - why focus on the nine hells? Chaos, one would think, doesn't really discriminate. I mena why? What is driving demons to attack devil if not demon lords? How do beings of chaos even form a force to attack if not motivated by a demon lord (or similarly powerful fiend)

Traditionally demons vastly out number devils. They're the hordes of the abyss.

Basically I guess a demon says let's go raid the 9 hells for fun. They can only rally limited support though. Devils are structured like an army so can respond in kind.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

That is fine if it works for you; it never seemed like enough justification to me for a cosmic conflict like the Blood War. Now, 4e's explanation did spark my imagination and it inspired me to add the Blood War, to some degree, to my setting.

The justification for how it started is that the Devils attacked the Demons who had been attacking everyone, the Demons attacked back and have kept going at the Devils ever since out of momentum. Most demons engage in the blood war cause that's where the fighting is.

 

[dave2008]

The justification for how it started is that the Devils attacked the Demons who had been attacking everyone, the Demons attacked back and have kept going at the Devils ever since out of momentum. Most demons engage in the blood war cause that's where the fighting is.

Again, not a compelling story to me. Particularly for something called the "Blood War." If it works for you - great! I am not looking to be convinced, I have a story that works for me now. And if I didn't, it is no loss for me to continue with the 1e lore (which I used for 25+ years) and not use the Blood War. It is simply not something I need.

 

[dave2008]

Traditionally demons vastly out number devils. They're the hordes of the abyss.

Basically I guess a demon says let's go raid the 9 hells for fun. They can only rally limited support though. Devils are structured like an army so can respond in kind.

That, to me, is a weak story for a cosmic conflict. That is why I don't use it. I much prefer the 4e approach that is what inspired me to add the blood war to my setting.

 

[Zaukrie]

It kinda kills me how people would say that Demons/Devils couldn't hurt each other. Didn't most of them have at least the feature "Magic Weapons" in their stat block? And if they didn't, something else to get around issues like that? (Such as Greyon doing Acid or Ice damage with his attacks)? I have too many 5E books to dig thru to check and it's late on my end.

That alone should pretty much ALLOW THEM to still hurt each other normally. Or getting past Raging Barbarian damage resists.

Granted, it's a moot point now that "Magic Weapons" has pretty much been folded into the attacks as Force Damage now.

No. They did not have magic weapons. Sure a Duke can add stuff, but they aren't fighting in the blood war.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

No. They did not have magic weapons. Sure a Duke can add stuff, but they aren't fighting in the blood war.

Lots of them had the trait Magic Weapon.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

That, to me, is a weak story for a cosmic conflict. That is why I don't use it. I much prefer the 4e approach that is what inspired me to add the blood war to my setting.

Could you elaborate on this. I am not sure what the 4e Approach was that changed the Blood War for you?