D&D General If we were re-designing the Tiny Hut-esc 'instant shelter' spells what would we change?

[Oofta]

it says that it keeps atmosphere comfortable and dry, it's hard to to that when a 3rd of your house does not have any outer walls.

It's magic, it doesn't need to be logical.

 

[Oofta]

The party is fully rested, cannot be targeted with spells, can choose not to be seen because the dome is opaque, so it’s less of an issue. But again, from a meta perspective, it forces an escalation from the DM’s side to counterbalance a spell that is too powerful for its spell level. You even said earlier in this thread that you would adjust or have house rules for the spell. Does that not indicate the spell is overpowered?

I made my house rule because I want to allow it to be protection but not an pillbox military shelter impervious to all attacks. That doesn't mean it's always a good idea to use it.

 

[Horwath]

I made my house rule because I want to allow it to be protection but not an pillbox military shelter impervious to all attacks. That doesn't mean it's always a good idea to use it.

that is why I like the secure and secret shelter from 3.5e better.

it's strong but can be defeated.

 

[Micah Sweet]

It's magic, it doesn't need to be logical.

That is, of course, very debatable. Especially in D&D, where magic follows very specific rules.

 

[TiQuinn]

I made my house rule because I want to allow it to be protection but not a pillbox military shelter impervious to all attacks. That doesn't mean it's always a good idea to use it.

And I agree that shouldn’t be a function of the spell either. It’s one of my 5e boogeymen - there are certain spells that I just don’t think that should exist in their current state. They constrain the game, and they necessitate the DM to work against the party by outthinking them in order to provide a challenge. Zone of Truth is another that falls in this category for me because of how much it undermines having a simple mystery scenario in D&D. Guidance, with its instant bonus to any skill check, was another until recently.

To me, these are to DMs what Hold Person is to players. Players hate Hold Person because it’s a feel bad spell due to save or suck. Okay, well these are the feel bad spells for me as a DM.

 

[aco175]

it says that it keeps atmosphere comfortable and dry, it's hard to to that when a 3rd of your house does not have any outer walls.

This now seems to bring up the question of air and breathing and running out of the comfortable and dry air if it is an enclosed half-dome of impregnatable force. Not to say that the dome just resting on the ground might run out of air as well. Does it take more than 8 hours of breathing to use the air up? What about 4 people in the dome? What about lighting a fire to eat something?

 

[TiQuinn]

This now seems to bring up the question of air and breathing and running out of the comfortable and dry air if it is an enclosed half-dome of impregnatable force. Not to say that the dome just resting on the ground might run out of air as well. Does it take more than 8 hours of breathing to use the air up? What about 4 people in the dome? What about lighting a fire to eat something?

I would say that if it’s comfortable, it’s got air. Without air, it cannot be comfortable.

 

[tetrasodium]

I think the rest rules are the ultimate source of discontent for these spells, and would need changes.

I think Galder's tower was written by someone who didn't really consider it's dimensions, especially when letting it be furnished. Each floor is either 10 ft X 10ft, or a circle ~11.25 ft in diameter. All of that is supposed to hold a hatch, ladder, and a bedroom with a bed, chairs, chest, and magical fireplace? That's going to be one cramped room.

Im not sure what galder's tower is but very much agree that the current rest rules themselves are very much a part of the problem that caused these spells to become so overpowered.

I'll offer a suggestion for Tiny hut that I haven't seen elsewhere in the thread. Make it a Ranger only spell. Rangers are meant to be good at shepherding people through the wilderness, and the spell becomes available at level 9.

There is very much a reason why wizard has tiny hut and it's tied to resting rule changes. I'm not going to go back to check the exact wording but wizard had to meet a fairly high bar in order to study and prepare spells. In 3.x that bar was something like "a good night's sleep" plus some amount of time (1hr?) spent in peaceful uninterrupted study. Im ad&d2e it was something like ten minutes (1hr?) of quiet uninterrupted study per spell level of the spell being prepared for each spell.
With 5e they deleted that whole need and a few related concepts like vancian prep. That deletion left these iconic spells in a state of function without purpose & wotc decided to change the purpose to tickling munchkin fantasies rather than restoring function by fixing the problem they created through charges to resting and recovery

 

[James Gasik]

Can you just dig under the edge of a tiny hut? It creates a dome shaped force. Is that a globe that surrounds you underground as well?

So the spell says it's a hemisphere. I envisioned it as a sphere sliced in half, so it doesn't have a floor. But Jeremy Crawford, in a tweet, said "oh no, it does have a floor", which was brought up to me when I tried to have some incorporeal undead come up from the ground. As it was an Adventure League game, I was forced to abdicate, even though I disagreed with that interpretation.

 

[James Gasik]

That is, of course, very debatable. Especially in D&D, where magic follows very specific rules.

This is debatable as well. Spells may follow rules, but there's plenty of examples of "it's magic!" all over the place in D&D. Castles built on clouds, islands that float in the sky, rivers that flow through the air, places where time itself doesn't flow correctly, and so on. Sure, you could say "A Wizard did it" with an unknown spell, but what happens when said spell would have to be higher than 9th level? Some campaign settings have had spells higher than 9th (pre-Karsus Faerun, Athas), but does every one?

And that doesn't even take into account weird monster abilities which have no explanation, like the gas attack of a gorgon that turns one to stone. They just...do it. And the explanation is...uh, magic I guess?