D&D General What Should Magic Be Able To Do, From a Gameplay Design Standpoint?

[Reynard]

Are we talking Magic and not Spells? Then it should have no limits and should be continually sprinkled on all classes.

As I stated in the OP, this is primarily about PC casters.

 

[TheSword]

A question about this one. Ever since most buffs became concentration in 5e, I've noticed very little buff casting from my casters, as they always have better things to do with concentration. Which means that the non-spellcasters receive very few buffs, which used to be a big deal in older editions. Have you had a different experience, or are you concerned about self-buffing?

It might vary based on the approach to the game. I love seen Haste, Bless, Mirror image, Aid, Protection fro Agis/Evil, Sanctuary, Guidance and several others used in our last few sessions. I think the heady days of 3e/Pathfinder have seen less buffing but it’s definitely still a thing for us.

 

[TheSword]

Everything execpt 10(maybe) should also be something that non-magic can do

To some extent yes. A character should be able to research in a library instead of cast legend lore. I also think magic items or locations can give access to things like scrying or divination.

I don’t really want to see martial’s applying area damage much, or physically changing the battlefield.

 

[aco175]

Without getting into different D&D worlds and how each handles magic casters, I feel that if magic has been around for a thousand generations, then each would build upon the last. There would be stories of; back in my grandfather's day, we had to buy torches to go into dungeons and he always said someone should invent something that did not need to be lit and could last forever, or back in my day, we needed to keep watch at night- I wish someone would create something that would alert us if someone was sneaking into the camp. This makes sense and generally how technology advances.

From a gameplay / fairness / balance perspective, the overall power of casters should be cut back like others have pointed out. A caster can sneak and scout better than a rogue with spells, or investigate better or charm better or deal more damage or find traps etc... Some is determined on the level of the PCs we are talking about and number of spells available. There is also rituals that add to the utility mostly and cantrips that match the power of fighters and scale with level. The top end chart of spells per day seems to top at 1 spell of 7-9 level, but most people do not play that high and it is not a real part of discussion for PCs.

 

[billd91]

A question about this one. Ever since most buffs became concentration in 5e, I've noticed very little buff casting from my casters, as they always have better things to do with concentration. Which means that the non-spellcasters receive very few buffs, which used to be a big deal in older editions. Have you had a different experience, or are you concerned about self-buffing?

Bless and Haste have been pretty common in the games I've been running.

 

[sevenbastard]

Cure Hangovers: That's a game changer.

Regrow Hair: With so many old wizards and vain kings you think this would be a prime area of research.

Bedroom Stuff: Again lots of old wizards.

 

[Reynard]

Without getting into different D&D worlds and how each handles magic casters, I feel that if magic has been around for a thousand generations, then each would build upon the last. There would be stories of; back in my grandfather's day, we had to buy torches to go into dungeons and he always said someone should invent something that did not need to be lit and could last forever, or back in my day, we needed to keep watch at night- I wish someone would create something that would alert us if someone was sneaking into the camp. This makes sense and generally how technology advances.

This is a very modern view of technological advancement. In a world like Eberron where magic is commodotized and industrialized, sure. But few other worlds treat magic that way.

 

[Micah Sweet]

What magic can do in a fantasy setting in general, or in a D&D like setting in particular, is a complicated conversation.

What I would like to do is narrow that conversation a little bit and focus a discussion here on what D&D magic should be able to do or accomplish specifically in the hands of PC casters, and specifically from a game design standpoint with an eye toward balance and playability.

Note that I am tagging this D&D general but I understand we are likely to discuss this primarily from a 5E perspective because it is the current game and one that is very hackable. But we can also certainly talk about it with regards to earlier editions, retroclones, and adjacent systems.

I feel like there are a couple schools of thought folks might fall into, summed up broadly as "Anything, but not very often" and "Damage and status effects." I feel like utility spells are generally the most controversial and lead to discussions about spotlight stealing, among other things.

I don't want this discussion to be too focused on the traditional debate about casters versus martials, although that is going to come up. I am more interested in what role folks see D&D magic as filling in the game design and play experience, and by extension what that looks like in a theoretical PHB.

Anything, if you're powerful enough, but not reliably, not safely, and not very often.

 

[TwoSix]

Assuming a D&D-like setting somewhere along the Forgotten Realms-Eberron axis, I would want to see something like this:

1) Magic broken up into a several "schools" of effects. Any one class should be skilled in no more than one or two of these. Some classes could be made using thematic subsets of several of these (see: druid, necromancer), but that design should be approached very carefully.

• Spatial, temporal, force magic. Dimension door, magic missile, haste and slow.
• Elemental evocations. Fireball, lightning bolt, cone of cold.
• Shapeshifting. Polymorph and physical buffs like guardian of nature.
• Healing and restoration.
• Influence spells. Illusions and enchantments.
• Conjuring/binding effects.
• Information gathering and enhanced perception/cognition. Guidance, commune, locate object.

2) Nothing more powerful than a current 5e 5th level spell as part of a core class's kit. Access to higher level spells as treasure/found rituals can be a class perk, like magic item attunement.

3) Cantrips should have a large but finite casting limit (say, 20/day), to allow for combat use but preventing logical abuses of being cast hundreds of times a day.

4) All spellcasters should be "spells known", starting at around 3 at 1st and then scaling up to 12 or so at 10th. Spellbook prep and clerics with 25 spells need to go away. A caster's spell list should be an integral part of the character's identity.

 

[Stalker0]

I think this topic should focus around "Wizards in Downtime". aka time and spell slot availability is not a concern for a wizard. Assume that anything that can be spammed in the long term will be spammed.

A few areas of focus:

1) Divinations: Casting a divination about a subject is fine, but right now a lot of divinations can allow you to spam a number of questions if you have like a week of downtime which can get burdensome and consumes a lot of screentime from the group to the magic user.

2) Magic that requires magic to beat it. A classic example is wall of force, which a normal fighter has no real way to get around unless the DM provides some plot way to get. Those should be extremely tough but possible for a badass fighter to break.