WotC Mike Mearls: "D&D Is Uncool Again"

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In Mike Mearls' recent interview with Ben Riggs, he talks about how he feels that Dungeons & Dragons has had its moment, and is now uncool again. Mearls was one of the lead designers of D&D 5E and became the franchise's Creative Director in 2018. He worked at WotC until he was laid off in 2023. He is now EP of roleplaying games at Chaosium, the publisher of Call of Chulhu.

My theory is that when you look back at the OGL, the real impact of it is that it made D&D uncool again. D&D was cool, right? You had Joe Manganiello and people like that openly talking about playing D&D. D&D was something that was interesting, creative, fun, and different. And I think what the OGL did was take that concept—that Wizards and this idea of creativity that is inherent in the D&D brand because it's a roleplaying game, and I think those two things were sundered. And I don’t know if you can ever put them back together.

I think, essentially, it’s like that phrase: The Mandate of Heaven. I think fundamentally what happened was that Wizards has lost the Mandate of Heaven—and I don’t see them even trying to get it back.

What I find fascinating is that it was Charlie Hall who wrote that article. This is the same Charlie Hall who wrote glowing reviews of the 5.5 rulebooks. And then, at the same time, he’s now writing, "This is your chance because D&D seems to be stumbling." How do you square that? How do I go out and say, "Here are the two new Star Wars movies. They’re the best, the most amazing, the greatest Star Wars movies ever made. By the way, Star Wars has never been weaker. Now is the time for other sci-fi properties", like, to me that doesn’t make any sense! To me, it’s a context thing again.

Maybe this is the best Player’s Handbook ever written—but the vibes, the audience, the people playing these games—they don’t seem excited about it. We’re not seeing a groundswell of support and excitement. Where are the third-party products? That’s what I'd ask. Because that's what you’d think, "oh, there’s a gap", I mean remember before the OGL even came up, back when 3.0 launched, White Wolf had a monster book. There were multiple adventures at Gen Con. The license wasn’t even official yet, and there were already adventures showing up in stores. We're not seeing that, what’s ostensibly the new standard going forward? If anything, we’re seeing the opposite—creators are running in the opposite direction. I mean, that’s where I’m going.

And hey—to plug my Patreon—patreon.com/mikemearls (one word). This time last year, when I was looking at my post-Wizards options, I thought, "Well, maybe I could start doing 5E-compatible stuff." And now what I’m finding is…I just don’t want to. Like—it just seems boring. It’s like trying to start a hair metal band in 1992. Like—No, no, no. Everyone’s mopey and we're wearing flannel. It's Seattle and rain. It’s Nirvana now, man. It’s not like Poison. And that’s the vibe I get right now, yeah, Poison was still releasing albums in the ’90s. They were still selling hundreds of thousands or a million copies. But they didn’t have any of the energy. It's moved on. But what’s interesting to me is that roleplaying game culture is still there. And that’s what I find fascinating about gaming in general—especially TTRPGs. I don’t think we’ve ever had a period where TTRPGs were flourishing, and had a lot of energy and excitement around them, and D&D wasn’t on the upswing. Because I do think that’s what’s happening now. We’re in very strange waters where I think D&D is now uncool.
 

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And the same thing can happen with physical books, 1 person buying more than 1 copy... correct or is there a limit of 1 per customer?
I purchased two sets of the 2014 core books personally, plus the digital versions on D&D Beyond.

Then, I purchased a third set for my afterschool D&D club . . . plus a bunch of second-hand copies of the PHB even later.

I've purchased, brand new, more print copies than digital copies.

Anecdotal, to be sure.

How many folks purchase the core books on multiple digital platforms? I'm sure the number is not zero, but I'm not sure it's anymore significant than the number of print books I've personally purchased.
 

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I posted this once and deleted it, but, reaching this interview, is anyone actually buying the story here?

I mean DnD’s golden boy, the face of DnD for over a decade, goes completely radio silent and moves over to Magic, where he’s never heard from. And this was a “promotion”? Really? Then, the very first time WotC does any layoffs in a decade, his name is top of the list?

Now Ben Riggs seems to let that pass without so much of a whisper. Just nods his head and lets it go. Not so much as a quibble with Mearls’ story.

And this guy wants to be DnD’s historian?

Sorry but I’m not buying it at all.

Funny thing. If mearls was still at WotC, all those folks who seem to be nodding along to what he says would be first in line to cast doubt.
 

I posted this once and deleted it, but, reaching this interview, is anyone actually buying the story here?

I mean DnD’s golden boy, the face of DnD for over a decade, goes completely radio silent and moves over to Magic, where he’s never heard from. And this was a “promotion”? Really? Then, the very first time WotC does any layoffs in a decade, his name is top of the list?

Now Ben Riggs seems to let that pass without so much of a whisper. Just nods his head and lets it go. Not so much as a quibble with Mearls’ story.

And this guy wants to be DnD’s historian?

Sorry but I’m not buying it at all.

Funny thing. If mearls was still at WotC, all those folks who seem to be nodding along to what he says would be first in line to cast doubt.
Did Mearls get "promoted" or at least get a lateral change in position . . . or did WotC shuffle him away from D&D due to his controversial involvement with Zak S?

I think it can be both.

If WotC was really trying to silence or punish Mearls, they could've just fired him at the time. More likely, his involvement with D&D was becoming problematic . . . to a degree . . . and that coincided with the opportunity for him to switch gears and join the Magic team. I don't think Mearls is being dishonest or misleading on his job change, he's just describing things from his own point of view.

I appreciate his work as a designer on the D&D team back in the day, and I was curious to see what he does on his own presently. However, I agree with @Imaro that Mearls is giving off salty vibes towards D&D, which lessens my interest in his current and future work. The tweets (exes?) you posted give me even more reason to stop paying him any attention . . . when folks start complaining about "participation trophies", I stop listening to them.
 

Did Mearls get "promoted" or at least get a lateral change in position . . . or did WotC shuffle him away from D&D due to his controversial involvement with Zak S?

I think it can be both.

If WotC was really trying to silence or punish Mearls, they could've just fired him at the time. More likely, his involvement with D&D was becoming problematic . . . to a degree . . . and that coincided with the opportunity for him to switch gears and join the Magic team. I don't think Mearls is being dishonest or misleading on his job change, he's just describing things from his own point of view.

I appreciate his work as a designer on the D&D team back in the day, and I was curious to see what he does on his own presently. However, I agree with @Imaro that Mearls is giving off salty vibes towards D&D, which lessens my interest in his current and future work. The tweets (exes?) you posted give me even more reason to stop paying him any attention . . . when folks start complaining about "participation trophies", I stop listening to them.
Why would Mearls being irritated with WotC makes you less interested in his work? What does one have to do with the other?
 

Why would Mearls being irritated with WotC makes you less interested in his work? What does one have to do with the other?
Didn't say that Mearls being irritated towards WotC makes me less interested in his work.

What I did say, is that Mearls being salty towards D&D . . . D&D 5E 2024 specifically . . . turns me off. "Salty" is different from "dislikes" and it feels (to me) like his attitude is more emotional than a more subjective dislike of the changes to the game.

And the participation trophy dog whistle, that drains my interest in his work even moreso.

Life is short and there are an overwhelming number of artists and designers out there to give attention to. Mearls is free to design what he wants and express himself as he wants, but his choices are making him less interesting to me and I'm moving on. I've got no problem with him finding success in his endeavors, or with fans who remain interested in his design work.
 

I mean, seriously, Mearls is younger than I am and I grew up with "participation trophies" as did every other Gen Xer and younger. His X post couldn't be more old man if it was wearing a jacket and smoking a pipe.

Look, it's fine to not like something. But, good grief, repeatedly banging the drum so you can try to pull a Paizo is pretty transparent.
 

Didn't say that Mearls being irritated towards WotC makes me less interested in his work.

What I did say, is that Mearls being salty towards D&D . . . D&D 5E 2024 specifically . . . turns me off. "Salty" is different from "dislikes" and it feels (to me) like his attitude is more emotional than a more subjective dislike of the changes to the game.

And the participation trophy dog whistle, that drains my interest in his work even moreso.

Life is short and there are an overwhelming number of artists and designers out there to give attention to. Mearls is free to design what he wants and express himself as he wants, but his choices are making him less interesting to me and I'm moving on. I've got no problem with him finding success in his endeavors, or with fans who remain interested in his design work.
Ok. Doesn't make any sense to me, but fair enough.
 


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