D&D (2024) Martial/Caster fix.

[Corinnguard]

Slight correction, Wildborn are 1/3 casters.

Rangers were third casters in 2e and 3e, and half-casters in 5e. Where did they stand in 4e?

 

[Voadam]

Rangers were third casters in 2e and 3e, and half-casters in 5e. Where did they stand in 4e?

Pure non-caster martials in the 4e PH. And they were fantastic. I played one in a decently long campaign.

Not entirely sure in essentials if they are primal powered.

 

[Corinnguard]

Pure non-caster martials in the 4e PH.

Not entirely sure in essentials if they are primal powered.

They could have been a Primal Striker in that case.

 

[Theory of Games]

There is no balancing D&D classes. Spellcasters are just more powerful. Unless you gag them

 

[Corinnguard]

There is no balancing D&D classes. Spellcasters are just more powerful. Unless you gag them

Gag them, tie them up and take away their spell components...

 

[Distracted DM]

They could have been a Primal Striker in that case.

Primal wasn't a thing in the original 4e PHB, so they were martials. But in later books, when they introduced other power sources and revisited classes, the ranger got primal options.

 

[Minigiant]

Everyone misses the key issue with Ranger and Paladins.

Unique spells or exploits that resemble their myths appropriate to their level.

Rangers and Paladins were 1/3 casters in 3e. But WOTC wasn't afraid to give the unique appropriate magic. So although a ranger or paladin might only have a 3RD level spell, that spell was deadier in their hands OR had a unique aspect that they only had.

In 4e, this was just straight pasted to their powers.

This has never really been done for pur martial classes outside 4e. After level 12 or so, uniqueness and level appropriateness is only a though for casters. And in 5e, only full casters.

 

[grimmgoose]

IMO it's an unsolveable problem (for D&D and its derivatives).

1. You can't make martials like spellcasters because it'll make people mad.
2. You can't nerf spellcasters because it'll make people mad.
3. You can't give martials spell-like abilities because it'll make people mad.

I've "solved" it for my own table by simply giving martials spells via their weapons. It's basically a 4E "encounter" power.

But would that solve the issue across the entire community? No, because [see #1].

 

[ECMO3]

The fact that Rangers and Paladins are half-casters merely points out that the martial/caster issue resides on something of a spectrum with non-casters and full casters sitting at both ends, and everyone else in between. However, as a full caster levels up at higher tier levels, they can out-do the martials by using more powerful spells that are limited only through the number of available spell slots. .

To give the martials, an edge, they can be equipped by their own version of spells- the combat maneuvers. Like the ones provided by Level Up's Combat traditions, which steadily become more powerful with each degree (the equivalent of a spellcasting level) they attain. There are even a couple of Combat traditions that do make use of a little magic like Arcane Knight and Cutting Omen.

So, the Ranger and the Herald (the A5e version of the Paladin) are basically Half-Caster/Half-Combat Maneuver specialists.

i think we need some definitions. So a Ranger, paladin or High elf champion are not martials on this discussion?

Reguarding high-level and high level spells i agree, but saying there is inbalance at a few specific high level is fundamentally different than suggesting it exists from 1-20. when you look at individual classes and levels it is very complex

 

[Zardnaar]

IMO it's an unsolveable problem (for D&D and its derivatives).

1. You can't make martials like spellcasters because it'll make people mad.
2. You can't nerf spellcasters because it'll make people mad.
3. You can't give martials spell-like abilities because it'll make people mad.

I've "solved" it for my own table by simply giving martials spells via their weapons. It's basically a 4E "encounter" power.

But would that solve the issue across the entire community? No, because [see #1].

You can indirectly nerf magic with monster design. Buckets of hot points snd weak saves aren't I though.

Greater Magic resistance I might yoink that.