Spoilers Star Wars: Andor season 2

[Dire Bare]

I thought Luthen's backstory was masterclass storytelling, precisely because we find out his persona is a complete lie.

The whole time, Luthen's passing himself off as some sort of spymaster/businessman/martyr who's leading the rebellion and then... surprise! Kleya's the real Axis and Luthen is just her front man. He's an Imperial deserter who's only good for lying and planting an occasional bomb. She's a child prodigy who quickly surpasses her mentor in competence and ruthlessness. Heck, Luthen couldn't even kill himself without Kleya's help. Luthen may not think so, but he's the sidekick.

Once you realize that, you can go back and watch all the interactions between Luthen and Kleya throughout the series and see that the dynamics of their relationship are not what they appear to be at first glance

I see the Luthen/Kleya relationship as more of a partnership, both bringing different strengths, weaknesses, and skills to the task. Luthen and Kleya together were Axis. Luthen was in charge, but relied heavily on Kleya's drive and skills.

 

[billd91]

The Luthen/Kleya relationship also echoes the relationship of a Jedi and their family-less padawan. He mentors and teaches as she gets older and keeps her drive and discipline alive. But since it's ultimately based on anger and retribution (and she eventually has to finish him off) it's a bit of a Sith-like relationship as well.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I thought Luthen's backstory was masterclass storytelling, precisely because we find out his persona is a complete lie.

The whole time, Luthen's passing himself off as some sort of spymaster/businessman/martyr who's leading the rebellion and then... surprise! Kleya's the real Axis and Luthen is just her front man. He's an Imperial deserter who's only good for lying and planting an occasional bomb. She's a child prodigy who quickly surpasses her mentor in competence and ruthlessness. Heck, Luthen couldn't even kill himself without Kleya's help. Luthen may not think so, but he's the sidekick.

Once you realize that, you can go back and watch all the interactions between Luthen and Kleya throughout the series and see that the dynamics of their relationship are not what they appear to be at first glance

He's definitely not "just the front man". Kleya learned everything about the trade from him.
But she is taking over from him. There are several occassions where they mention that it's getting too complex, that Luthen is slipping. He's getting old, but Kleya is still young, and now she has become the master.
It had to be him to destroy the comms equipment, and her with the message. The chance of capture was high, and he couldn't allow her to get captured or killed. She is the future, he's the past.

It also - maybe not even by intention - kinda mirrors the Sith Master/Apprentice situation and the Rule of Two - Kleya's final task to become master herself is killing her master.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

There were lots of things that suggested Luthen was a Jedi of some sort, most importantly his monologue to Lonni which now after he's been given a backstory so doesn't fit the character that the most logical explanation is that it was all an act to keep Lonni on board. The truth is, Luthen had given up nothing to become what he was.

I don't really follow that his monologue suggests anything about him that is contradicted by the backstory.
His monologue isn't about given up on something he had in the past. It's about giving up on something for his life, something he would never have, whether he had it before or not.

Calm. Kindness, kinship. Love.

This is what he gave up on. This isn't something like "I gave up on my wife and kids and my childhood friend", it's "I gave up on the very idea of finding loved ones. I give up on the idea of having a piece of mind or a feeling of safety."

 

[chuckdee]

how did he build up the collateral and connections to set up shop in a wealthy section of Coruscant?

We get hints of that. He built it from scratch. I'm not sure where he got the antiquities he was hawking in the flashbacks, but he showed more than a passing familiarity. And towards the end, he was more refined and they seemed more genteel when he finally made his first strike. He'd been at it for a while. And in that industry, you are your connections.

 

[Epic Meepo]

I see the Luthen/Kleya relationship as more of a partnership, both bringing different strengths, weaknesses, and skills to the task. Luthen and Kleya together were Axis. Luthen was in charge, but relied heavily on Kleya's drive and skills.

I'd say Luthen and Kleya have a father/daughter relationship in which the daughter has long since eclipsed her aging father. She still respects Luthen for showing her the ropes, and Luthen is nominally in charge of their "family business," but Kleya's the one propping up the operation. He's the face of the conspiracy, but she's the one handling all the logistics.

Just compare the number of times Kleya gives Luthen instructions to the number of times Luthen gives Kleya instructions, and you'll see she's the one making most of the decisions. In fact, the one time we see adult Kleya awaiting Luthen's instructions, she's just told him what instructions to give her: "Tell me to shut it down." And even though Luthen's technically in charge, he issues the exact instruction Kleya told him to issue.

Kleya defers to Luthen because he's her father figure and her coconspirator, but by the time Kleya's an adult, I don't think she sees him as a mentor anymore. Their operation has become so far-reaching, of the two of them, only Kleya can follow it anymore. She knows more about what's happening on the ground and she makes all the important decisions.

 

[pukunui]

I'm fairly sure the reality is that he was meant to be a Jedi in season 1 just as originally Lyra Erso was meant to be a Jedi in Rogue One ...

Aha! I've always wondered why she dressed like a Jedi ...

I'd say Luthen and Kleya have a father/daughter relationship in which the daughter has long since eclipsed her aging father. She still respects Luthen for showing her the ropes, and Luthen is nominally in charge of their "family business," but Kleya's the one propping up the operation. He's the face of the conspiracy, but she's the one handling all the logistics.

Just compare the number of times Kleya gives Luthen instructions to the number of times Luthen gives Kleya instructions, and you'll see she's the one making most of the decisions. In fact, the one time we see adult Kleya awaiting Luthen's instructions, she's just told him what instructions to give her: "Tell me to shut it down." And even though Luthen's technically in charge, he issues the exact instruction Kleya told him to issue.

Kleya defers to Luthen because he's her father figure and her coconspirator, but by the time Kleya's an adult, I don't think she sees him as a mentor anymore. Their operation has become so far-reaching, of the two of them, only Kleya can follow it anymore. She knows more about what's happening on the ground and she makes all the important decisions.

Those are excellent points and makes her reluctance to go to Yavin 4 more understandable ... because she's going from being the biggest fish in a very small pond to a very small fish in a much larger pond.

 

[billd91]

Those are excellent points and makes her reluctance to go to Yavin 4 more understandable ... because she's going from being the biggest fish in a very small pond to a very small fish in a much larger pond.

I don't think that's it. Going from big fish to small fish in larger pond is, I think, not on her radar. Rather, I think she's being pretty frank with Cassian - she and Luthen may be responsible for getting a lot of the rebellion set up and getting resources to Yavin 4 behind the scenes, but they're very controversial figures within the Alliance due to their hard-dealing tactics and that has made her somewhat paranoid about the reception either of them would get. Plus, by the time Cassian gets her there, she's not just hurt but also exhausted, physically and mentally. Not only did she have to handle the biggest intelligence drop of 10 lifetimes, she had to murder her mentor/bogeyman/father-figure under the noses of Imperial troops, go into hiding, and risk exposure to summon help. She's SPENT.

 

[Celebrim]

Aha! I've always wondered why she dressed like a Jedi ...

The irony is that Obi Wan was in ANH dressed like a farmer, not very differently than Owen Lars. This is fitting because he's presumed to be in disguise. But for some reason in the prequel trilogy, Lucas decided that those robes were now so associated with the Jedi that it would be good visual shorthand for the audience if the Jedi dressed like that.

And so the truth is that Lyra is dressed like a farmer.

 

[chuckdee]

I'd say Luthen and Kleya have a father/daughter relationship in which the daughter has long since eclipsed her aging father. She still respects Luthen for showing her the ropes, and Luthen is nominally in charge of their "family business," but Kleya's the one propping up the operation. He's the face of the conspiracy, but she's the one handling all the logistics.

Just compare the number of times Kleya gives Luthen instructions to the number of times Luthen gives Kleya instructions, and you'll see she's the one making most of the decisions. In fact, the one time we see adult Kleya awaiting Luthen's instructions, she's just told him what instructions to give her: "Tell me to shut it down." And even though Luthen's technically in charge, he issues the exact instruction Kleya told him to issue.

Kleya defers to Luthen because he's her father figure and her coconspirator, but by the time Kleya's an adult, I don't think she sees him as a mentor anymore. Their operation has become so far-reaching, of the two of them, only Kleya can follow it anymore. She knows more about what's happening on the ground and she makes all the important decisions.

Yeah, I don't even see that. A lot of the hard decisions come directly from him. She provides needed logistics and intelligence, but we see him in action enough to know that it's a partnership at this point - not one over the other.