D&D General The First Demise of TSR: Gygax's Folly

[PHATsakk43]

Welp, I think it’s time to wrap it up folks.

 

[Mournblade94]

I never understood why the design team wouldn't want to work on a Buck Rogers game, since it's right up their alley of pulp fantasy and sci-fi. So I have to think that it was because of their personal feelings about Lorraine, or something like that. I haven't heard enough from the creatives of the time to know. I think it would have been cool.

It WAS cool. I regret losing track of my copies.

 

[Mournblade94]

She owned both. If TSR made money, she made money. I think a lot of folks remain unclear on this point. She wasn't trying rip off herself.

Laugh react for last line

 

[Warren]

It is very important to get the facts correct. Was Gygax a poor manager. Yes. Was Lorraine Williams a worse manager? IMHO, yes. She obviously did not understand the product line, mismanaged it and contributed nothing but cash.

Well if she took a business in trouble and ran it for another 12 years she was doing something right. I'd love to see the year by year financial summary from about 1978 to the WOTC buyout, but that info just isn't available.

It's a weird and fascinating contrast to read about the history of the company whereby some of my favorite products came out during the Williams years, from a game I completely associated with Gygax.

Whatever happened, she was able to keep and/or hire some of the great talents working at TSR that made it all happen.

 

[Mournblade94]

Gygax and the Blumes had TSR nearly bankrupt in about 10 years. Unearthed Arcana and Oriental Adventures and Williams' investment provided the capital needed to save the company, plus her wrangling with the banks, which didn't have enough faith in Gygax as CEO. Williams' run lasted a little longer than they managed. She saved the company first, got it back on its feet, then made her own mistakes and eventually ran it into the ground too.

If you don't want to buy the history books, When We Were Wizards is available for free.

One thing that stuck out to me in Episode 13, funny because I am running the old Temple of Elemental Evil right now, is that Gary was expecting 10% Royalty on Temple of Elemental Evil, and he only wrote the FIRST part of it. Frank Mentzer wrote the rest according to the podcast. Frank Mentzer even wrote MOST of it. Correction: Gary had the full outline and notes. He fully wrote the first part of it and Frank Mentzer finished it off of Gygax's Notes.

I would respect this position more if he was demanding Mentzer get the royalty as well. But it seems according to the Podcast only Arneson and Gygax got HUGE royalties, and Jim Ward got adequate Royalties.

 

[Mournblade94]

Because you are not following the actual timeline. Gygax was removed in 1985. TSR was sold to WOTc in 1997 to avoid bankruptcy. That is 12 years of leadership under Williams with zero involvement of Gygax. The failure of management and the insolvency is due to her poor management. Blame Gygax alll you want but the facts don’t line up.

I've read about every book on the Business History of D&D with the exception of When we were wizards. But I listened to the Podcast. Even the designers and people with business sense like Mike Carr said Gary was an awful manager. A creative genius yes, but he was an awful business manager.

Lorraine was the opposite. She was a great financial but she had no idea about the creative side. It seems what got her in the end was she didn't understand the game production. (opposite gary, who got game production but not business). This left TSR with a Printing Bill of Doom that killed the company.

I am a fan of Gary Gygax. I am in no way a fan of Lorraine Williams. I don't like when Gygax criticism is launched in places in doesn't belong like the 50th anniversary Book. That annoys me still to no end. Doesn't need to be mentioned there. But the TSR History books absolutely. It seems that Gary saying misogynistic things to Lorraine Williams MAY be what made her buy Blume shares to take the company from him.

 

[Mournblade94]

You should find some grass to touch.

This isn’t this important. We’re discussing a b-list celebrity heiress and a game company founder’s business acumen.

Ofcourse its not that important. But it is relevant on a forum for gaming. Nothing on this forum is "that important'. And YES, Lorraine Williams did stab him in the back. And she had HELP to keep her plans secret.

 

[PHATsakk43]

Ofcourse its not that important. But it is relevant on a forum for gaming. Nothing on this forum is "that important'. And YES, Lorraine Williams did stab him in the back. And she had HELP to keep her plans secret.

Help?

Seriously, like she was a board member, shareholder, and a company officer. She knew what was going on and that Gary was not able to get the Blume's out, because neither he personally, nor the credit of TSR was able to meet the Blume's demands. Even in with the most generous story in Gary's defense (Gary’s account of the closed door offer to the Blumes after they were told they had to leave), the offer that supposedly was made to the Blume's by Gary was that Gary was trying to find a "consortium" of buyers to purchase their shares. Gary personally feared exactly what happened in October, which was a single buyer (other than himself) acquiring their total shares plus options which was more than he controlled. Which is exactly what Lorraine did. She made a cash offer to them, as well as fronting the cash to exercise their latent option of 700 additional shares along with her exercising her own outstanding option of 50 plus the initial shares she received as when she had been brought on in the previous March to offset her cash infusion into the company. The only sort of dubious thing was loaning them the cash to exercise their options. Even then it wasn’t really any different from the demands the Blumes had made as a condition of their severance package, in April and later in August as an effective notice to the company.

Again, in one of the only statements we have from Lorraine, she states that she did not inform Gary of what she was doing because she knew that it was just “an invitation for him to get in and just try to screw it up, and to once again try to thwart the ability of the Blumes to sell their stock and to get out and to go about their lives.” Did she inform Gary, no, because she understood that Gary would likely have created more problems, but not actually have been able to do anything regarding the sale except prolong the period, which was untenable given the state of the company's finances. Recall that the Blumes had filed suit against TSR, as they only agreed to step down from the board if TSR purchased their stake in the company, along with the 700-share option as a severance, which the board agreed in April. There was no other way to unwind this whole thing.

One way or the other, Gary was going to lose TSR, whether that was to a buyer or the bank was simply the only question.

 

[Clint_L]

I've read about every book on the Business History of D&D with the exception of When we were wizards. But I listened to the Podcast. Even the designers and people with business sense like Mike Carr said Gary was an awful manager. A creative genius yes, but he was an awful business manager.

Was Gygax a creative genius? If you look at his most impactful contributions, virtually all were iterations on work other people had started. Greyhawk, including (we now know, though he never admitted it) the pivotal Fantasy Supplement were iterations, often very close iterations, on work that others had done. The D&D Rules were iterations on what Arneson had been doing. Most of the new character classes were proposed first by others.

To me, his great contribution was more in having the vision and work ethic to make D&D happen. I don't think he was a remarkable ideas guy, I think he was a fantastic champion for the game. Without Gygax there is no D&D. He deserves most of the credit for the game existing today. But I don't think he deserves most of the conceptual credit.

And then I look at his subsequent work and...Gord the Rogue is not representative of creative genius, nor were his subsequent, half-realized forays into new game designs.

 

[Warren]

To me, his great contribution was more in having the vision and work ethic to make D&D happen. I don't think he was a remarkable ideas guy, I think he was a fantastic champion for the game. Without Gygax there is no D&D. He deserves most of thecredit for the game existing today. But I don't think he deserves most of the conceptual credit.

Well said I think this summarizes it. He had that something special that seemed to be lacking in the traditional gaming/creative world.

While he could not manage TSR's business in its huge growth stage, he did well getting it off the ground financially where others would have failed.