D&D General The First Demise of TSR: Gygax's Folly

I'm kind of struggling with what constituted "the community" Gygax exploded. If you're talking the RPG community - that didn't really exist before D&D - there were separate wargamer and sci-fi/fantasy communities that had member that were attracted to D&D and formed a D&D/RPG community. D&D breaking out into a fad product certainly would have exploded that community further, but D&D was pretty much the community's big bang in the first place anyway. Grumbling about the expansion to incorporate more "normies" would have been the equivalent of a gatekeeping/old geezer backlash.
Being wrong doesn’t mean that those who are angry for a logical fallacy don’t stop being angry when it’s pointed out.

People have been righteously indignant before social media.
 
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His story strikes me as a perfect example of “right place, right time”. There’s a tendency to mythologize people who achieve success but there’s plenty of luck that goes into the mix, as well as an ability to recognize an opportunity. It doesn’t mean those people will always be successful - they’re not geniuses.
Gygax very much caught lightning in a bottle. Quite frankly, we were also lucky to have someone like Gary Gygax during the Satanic Panic when D&D, and all role playing games, were under attack. He did a great job explaining what D&D was to the masses and defending the game from unfair criticism.
 

I find cross-forum drama unseemly, so take this with a grain of salt. However, I've found the culture at DF has vacillated over the years. Like anywhere else without an entrance requirement and unextreme ban policy, it's just anyone who chooses to be there.
If I were to assign alignment, I’d give it a solid Lawful-Neutral. I’ve never had any issues there, but it’s not a place I felt particularly comfortable. It seems well moderated and ran. Definitely not anything personally against DF. I just personally like the “vibe” at enworld, rpg.net, & candlekeep.com more.
 

From context (has a fantasy supplement), I assume you mean oD&D. Greyhawk was mostly Gary's own work (although occasionally others ideas, as in the case of those new character classes).
"The Fantasy Supplement" was a reference to Chainmail. OD&D references it in several places, and back in day Dave Arneson indicated that he used rules from it as the initial mechanics for his Blackmoor game, which was otherwise inspired in large part by Braunstein. We found out a few years after Playing at the World came out that the Fantasy Supplement substantially cribbed from Leonard Patt's rules for a Middle Earth wargame. This was a cool find and added weight to the argument that RPGs can't be credited to a single creator, since so many elements converged which were contributed by different creators.

Supplement I: Greyhawk is credited to Gygax and Rob Kuntz (one of the few other people to make some decent royalty money off TSR) remember, so even that key work which underpins and contains so many ideas used in AD&D and later editions was a collaboration.

I agree that Gary had some good ideas, but his biggest talent seems to have been his energy, passion, and willingness to put in the work and hours to assemble rules and adventures, often iterating on and expanding ideas (his own and from others), and to promote and sell them to a wider audience.

Unfortunately that willingness to put in the work appears to have largely dried up in the early 80s, though he kept trying to make media deals happen while neglecting the health of the company, and his later designs seem mostly* uninspired or downright terrible (Mythus, Cyborg Commando). His disintegrating marriage as he played Business Bigshot combined with his mother's death in late 1980 both seem like they might have contributed to him losing his way a bit and losing his creative passion. Three martini lunches and marching powder also aren't usually a good recipe for creative productivity.

*(I have recently started playing in a Castle Zagyg game, though, so maybe there's some more cool stuff in there, even if it is mostly iterating off his old Castle Greyhawk concepts?)
 
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I have read the recent books and also pat interviews from many people involved. Gary was long gone around 1982 as he was in Hollywood trying to get media deals done. He got the cartoon. The Blumes were involved with day to day operations once their father died. Their father was the main investor and his shares passed to his sons. Lorraine Williams stabbed him in the back. Stop making excuses for her. She had the company for 12 years and totally botched her job. The debt during that 12 years span is owned by her. They had a sweet deal with Random House where they would get advances for their print runs and used that money to fund the next project. The projects didn’t sell and Random House demanded payment for all the stock in their warehouse. That happened under Williams watch. Also the hate-branded idea to upset DC comics by trying to publish D&D comics I house when they were already successful under the DC contract. Yeah, I read a book or two plus interviews over the years. Cite all your proof that my points are invalid if you can. Stop making vague, general points that Gary was a bad manager. Everyone knows that. It does not matter because TSR failed 12 years after deposing him.

Gary wasn't "long gone" in '82. He was still one of the guys in charge, even while he was abdicating most of the management responsibilities to the Blumes while he was in Hollywood. That was by his choice, and he repeatedly approved and agreed with decisions they made which hurt the company. Though he disagreed with others, it was still his choice to have the Blumes make those decisions. One of the recurring themes we see in When We Were Wizards was how a lot of the creative staff thought of Gary as one of their own and expected that if he knew what the Blumes were doing he would help them out, while behind the scenes he was indeed aware of the Blumes' decisions and giving them tacit or explicit approval. And he was already making terrible decisions well before deciding to focus on media and movie deal- like when Dave Megarry tried to share a book with him on corporate management and stages of development, and tried to get the company to hire someone with actual management experience to head off problems, and was treated with contempt.

Yes, we all know about the Random House deal. You're late to the discussion and preaching to the choir on that. If you want to call Williams worse because as a manager she kept the company operating two years longer than Gygax and the Blumes... That doesn't seem to add up. We also have the fact that virtually every TSR employee who worked under both the Gygax/Blume regime and the Williams regime has said they preferred working for Williams. Williams seems to have been unpleasant in some regards, and definitely made some bad decisions, but the company wasn't a massive mess of nepotism, over-expansion and years of mass firings like it was under Gary and the Blumes. The "Comic Book Modules" idea and screwing up with licensing deal with DC was indeed dumb. But it wasn't "buy needlepoint company Greenfield Needlewomen because my cousin owns it" dumb, or "hire my brother in law to run procurement and purchasing and swallow hundreds of thousands in losses when he mass-orders mismatched board game board and box sizes" dumb. Or "dump the Grenadier and Ral Partha licensing to try to bring miniature production in-house, overpay Duke Seyfriend to run it, then throw good money after bad to buy him out when it fails completely" dumb. Or "stop ordering dice before in-house molds are actually anywhere near ready, and be forced to sell Basic sets with cardboard chits for several months" dumb.

It is very important to get the facts correct. Was Gygax a poor manager. Yes. Was Lorraine Williams a worse manager? IMHO, yes. She obviously did not understand the product line, mismanaged it and contributed nothing but cash. The utter failure led to the collapse and near disappearance of the game.
Nah. She contributed more competent management, as attested by TSR employees who worked under both. She kept it alive at least long enough to and finally did sell to WotC, allowing the game to continue to exist. Gary and the Blumes in 1985 were in the same kind of financial position in terms of debt and failure. The company was on the verge of bankruptcy and being lost to the bank before Gygax recruited Williams and she gave it another 12 years.

Gary at least had the collaborative idea along with Arneson and turned it into the hobby we all enjoy to this day. The books, video games, comics and even the forums here all sprang from his idea. Sorry that it doesn't fit into your notions about Gygax but whatever his flaws he did far more for our industry than Lorraine Williams ever did and I am tired of seeing him dragged through the mud to cover up the flaws of The Blume Brothers, Lorraine Williams, TSR, WOTC, Hasbro and everyone else involved.
And we credit him for his creative and promotional achievements! Gary pretty much founded the TTRPG hobby at the overlap point between the wargaming and sci-fi fandoms. But we don't need to keep repeating lies he told about all TSR mismanagement being other people's fault. And we don't need to keep repeating the canard that Williams never did anything for the hobby, when a ton of books millions of people love came out under her watch, including all of 2E, Dark Sun, Planescape, and the vast majority of the fiction. And when she's the one who made the WotC deal and enabled Peter Adkison to save D&D. If she really didn't give a damn she could have walked away and let it sink.
 
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