D&D (2024) IK Gunfighter in D&D 2024

[Remathilis]

So a friend of mine approached me about playing the Gunfighter Class from Iron Kingdoms: Requiem in an upcoming Eberron game. (Yes, I am fully aware about gun rarity in Eberron, but they're still in the PHB and thus allowed). I am using the 2024 rules for reference.

My initial read of this class is that it's very weak compared to a Fighter in 2024. Trick shots are very limited, and most of your other class features are very one-trick pony. Even the subclasses are just more of the same. And since I don't intend to use any firearms other than those in the PHB, I can't help but think its fine, but underpowered. It seems you'd get a lot more mileage out of a battlemaster fighter, between weapon mastery and more superiority dice. Even Mercer's gunslinger subclass on a 2024 fighter seems better.

Anyone have any experience or advice on the class? Am I missing anything? Is it nerfed without the very OP IK firearms? Or am I missing some strange interaction that makes them great?

 

[Piperken]

I can't comment on the Iron Kingdoms gun fighter, but one addition regardless if you do go with it or a different iteration would be to consider The Hat rule from Frontier Scum.

It's like the Shield break rule. You can lose your hat instead of taking damage from a single source i.e. it gets shot or knocked off your head (and likely needs to be repaired).

 

[mellored]

I suggest running it as is, then modifying it after you see it in action.

You can make it a little quest or something, and just increase the trick shot limit until it fits.

 

[Remathilis]

I suggest running it as is, then modifying it after you see it in action.

You can make it a little quest or something, and just increase the trick shot limit until it fits.

That is a possibility. I just wanted to make sure before I did something silly that I wasn't missing anything.

 

[humble minion]

I’ve played a bit of IK in 5e, although not the gunfighter specifically. In general yes, they are balanced around the IK firearms which are (by design) much much more powerful than the base 5e ones. Which only makes sense, since IK is a much more technologically advanced setting than standard d&d assumes.

Having said THAT though, IK classes tend to be underpowered (or at least very heavily front loaded) even by 5e standards. 5.5e classes are going to leave them in the dust. The Mechanik is just a worse bard, the Gunmage is just a worse warlock that starts at low levels with a massive alpha strike capability that never scales with level. I’ve never played one or been in a game where one was played, but I suspect you’re right. Gunfighter looked a lot to me like a worse and more specialised battlemaster fighter. And probably their best ability is the free reload one (most firearms have ammo magazines rather than the Loading property) which is going to be irrelevant for base d&d furearms.

I love the setting and intend to pitch it to my players for my next campaign, but the rules are wonky and poorly playtested and I was expecting to have to make a lot of in-the-fly adjustments to make things work and prevent wild imbalance or PCs feeling useless (especially if someone wanted to play a mechanik or warcaster, god help me). So I strongly suspect your initial impression is correct.

 

[Remathilis]

I’ve played a bit of IK in 5e, although not the gunfighter specifically. In general yes, they are balanced around the IK firearms which are (by design) much much more powerful than the base 5e ones. Which only makes sense, since IK is a much more technologically advanced setting than standard d&d assumes.

Having said THAT though, IK classes tend to be underpowered (or at least very heavily front loaded) even by 5e standards. 5.5e classes are going to leave them in the dust. The Mechanik is just a worse bard, the Gunmage is just a worse warlock that starts at low levels with a massive alpha strike capability that never scales with level. I’ve never played one or been in a game where one was played, but I suspect you’re right. Gunfighter looked a lot to me like a worse and more specialised battlemaster fighter. And probably their best ability is the free reload one (most firearms have ammo magazines rather than the Loading property) which is going to be irrelevant for base d&d furearms.

I love the setting and intend to pitch it to my players for my next campaign, but the rules are wonky and poorly playtested and I was expecting to have to make a lot of in-the-fly adjustments to make things work and prevent wild imbalance or PCs feeling useless (especially if someone wanted to play a mechanik or warcaster, god help me). So I strongly suspect your initial impression is correct.

Thank you. I'm glad to know my suspicions seem correct. I'll probably try to talk him out of it for no other reason than he's gonna probably get frustrated without the IK firearms to balance them out. If he's adamant about it though, at least it won't be breaking anything to let it.

 

[Weiley31]

I think one of the MAIN issues why the classes and all are underpowered or wonky in Iron Kingdom Requiem is due to the Mechanika items. It seems like one of the "endgame" set up goals is to craft/make/find Mechanika items which can get some souped up features.

I remember one time two years ago, bringing up an issue with the Gun Mage class on their Discord channel and somebody on there got HIGHLY DEFENSIVE about the class being called out as underpowered. And then they started going on about Mechanika items.

I mostly just import it's weapons table into my 5E games along with some other stuff from it.

 

[Steampunkette]

Thank you. I'm glad to know my suspicions seem correct. I'll probably try to talk him out of it for no other reason than he's gonna probably get frustrated without the IK firearms to balance them out. If he's adamant about it though, at least it won't be breaking anything to let it.

Wanna playtest my Gunslinger from Martial Artistry for him?

 

[Remathilis]

Wanna playtest my Gunslinger from Martial Artistry for him?

I can ask if he's interested. Wouldn't be starting the game until August though.

 

[humble minion]

I'll probably try to talk him out of it for no other reason than he's gonna probably get frustrated without the IK firearms to balance them out. If he's adamant about it though, at least it won't be breaking anything to let it.

If he’s really set on playing an IK gunfighter, there’s potentially ways to make it work. You could allow him to use the full (powerful) IK character creation rules with essence/race, which would give him a solid power boost. Even a level dip into fighter (or some of the other IK classes, like Raider) could help. Depends how much effort you want to put yourself to.

I think one of the MAIN issues why the classes and all are underpowered or wonky in Iron Kingdom Requiem is due to the Mechanika items. It seems like one of the "endgame" set up goals is to craft/make/find Mechanika items which can get some souped up features.

I’ve heard that argument before, and I dont think it’s a good one. I mean, these classes are designed to run in the same party as perfectly regular fighters, rogues, clerics and the like, who presumably ALSO get mechanikal goodies.

I think it’s just a matter of wonky rules writing, sadly. The IK development team just push out SO MANY new base classes and subclasses on a shoestring budget, there’s just not enough play testing done.