MarkB
Legend
More like "okay, try to return it intac- oh, who am I kidding, I'll get a replacement on order."
Spoilers Star Trek: Deep Space Nine
- Thread starter jian
- Start date
Watched Change of Heart last night and it held up very well - in fact, I enjoyed it even more than I did 25 years ago, because I’ve now been married for nearly 30 years and the episode is affectionate and committed about the Worf-Jadzia relationship in a way that’s rare (possibly unique) in Star Trek or many other TV series. This episode, along with so many others, is why theirs is my favourite relationship in Star Trek.
I hadn’t remembered how brutally clear the consequences of Worf’s choice were made to him in the episode - it’s possible that thousands if not millions of people will die as a result, and he escapes a court martial only due to specific circumstances. He will certainly never be allowed to serve alone with Jadzia again and will probably never be offered his own command. But he could not stand against his own heart, and I for one am right there with him.
I hadn’t remembered how brutally clear the consequences of Worf’s choice were made to him in the episode - it’s possible that thousands if not millions of people will die as a result, and he escapes a court martial only due to specific circumstances. He will certainly never be allowed to serve alone with Jadzia again and will probably never be offered his own command. But he could not stand against his own heart, and I for one am right there with him.
Inquisition, on the other hand, has aged less well, I think. It's still a well-executed episode and the beginning of the Section 31 arc. I don't disagree that the Federation needs an intelligence service (and they already have one) but I don't see why they need a super-secret intelligence service that everyone pretends doesn't exist (but I presume anyone in the know does know that they exist) and which clearly takes such cynical glee in being allowed to break the rules and dress in black pleather Gestapo uniforms. As more familiar as we are these days with authoritarianism, I think I'm inclined to say that Section 31 is a terrible idea and should be flushed out of an airlock at the earliest opportunity.
(And to be fair, the narrative is pretty clear that anyone sane in Starfleet does think this and the story does end badly for Sloan and his ilk, but where vibes are concerned the writers are splitting the difference, with some love for the "hard men making hard decisions" approach on display. It's an interesting Watson/Doyle split.)
(It also makes it a bit clearer to me why the recent TOS-era Section 31 movie took the approach it did, because the only way an ethical Federation can tolerate the existence of Section 31 is to have them be broken mavericks who send themselves off on suicide missions you couldn't order any Starfleet officer to do, and so they're more Guardians of the Galaxy than SS.)
(And to be fair, the narrative is pretty clear that anyone sane in Starfleet does think this and the story does end badly for Sloan and his ilk, but where vibes are concerned the writers are splitting the difference, with some love for the "hard men making hard decisions" approach on display. It's an interesting Watson/Doyle split.)
(It also makes it a bit clearer to me why the recent TOS-era Section 31 movie took the approach it did, because the only way an ethical Federation can tolerate the existence of Section 31 is to have them be broken mavericks who send themselves off on suicide missions you couldn't order any Starfleet officer to do, and so they're more Guardians of the Galaxy than SS.)
payn
Glory to Marik
Section 31 actually fits pretty well overall with DS9's break in Trek history. Being that this series was finally one that gave the Alpha quadrant's impression that Star Fleets excrement does in fact stink. I think its especially good since our beloved main characters hold up to the ideals of Star Fleet and flush S31 out the airlock as you say.
The Discovery era S31 however... dont get me started.
Yeah, I haven't watched the film but it doesn't sound like I'm missing anything. But I can see why the approach they took made sense, just not the execution.
pukunui
Legend
As awful as the Discovery era Section 31 is, I would argue that the Picard era Section 31 is even worse! They were conducting torturous experiments on living beings and putting others “on ice” in that black ops space station and so on.
EDIT: Never mind! I just checked online and it seems I was misremembering / misunderstood. Picard mostly shows the legacy of S31 rather than an active unit.
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Inquisition also made us wonder how exactly holodecks work, again. Is food you eat in holodecks edible? Can holodecks create clothes for you to wear, and if so, why does anyone bother dressing up to go to the holodeck?
(The latter came up because Sloan is in a normal Starfleet uniform for most of the masquerade, as are his subordinates, but are all shown to be wearing black pleather when Julian finally realises he's in a simulation. So were they wearing those all along but projected the appearance of velour over the top, or did they have time to get changed just before Julian worked it out? Or are the pleather uniforms the illusion?
I love the idea that Sloan et al were just hiding outside, waiting gleefully for the penny to drop so they could quickly change into their Gestapo fetish gear. Pro tip, by the way - if you're trying to recruit people into your super-secret evil organisation it probably helps if you don't dress like Nazis.)
(I'm inclined to think the answer is that holodecks can project clothes on to you but of course they disappear as soon as you leave the program, so people dress up to go to the holodeck so they don't have to walk back to their quarters in their skivvies, assuming skivvies exist in Star Trek and that's not already their kink.)
(My headcanon about Sloan et al is that they hang out in holodecks 24/7 and never wear any real clothes unless they have to.)
(The latter came up because Sloan is in a normal Starfleet uniform for most of the masquerade, as are his subordinates, but are all shown to be wearing black pleather when Julian finally realises he's in a simulation. So were they wearing those all along but projected the appearance of velour over the top, or did they have time to get changed just before Julian worked it out? Or are the pleather uniforms the illusion?
I love the idea that Sloan et al were just hiding outside, waiting gleefully for the penny to drop so they could quickly change into their Gestapo fetish gear. Pro tip, by the way - if you're trying to recruit people into your super-secret evil organisation it probably helps if you don't dress like Nazis.)
(I'm inclined to think the answer is that holodecks can project clothes on to you but of course they disappear as soon as you leave the program, so people dress up to go to the holodeck so they don't have to walk back to their quarters in their skivvies, assuming skivvies exist in Star Trek and that's not already their kink.)
(My headcanon about Sloan et al is that they hang out in holodecks 24/7 and never wear any real clothes unless they have to.)
Ryujin
Legend
Agree completely on Section 31. It should have only existed long enough to show what a monumentally horrible idea it is, for an organization like The UFP, then been rooted out like the vermin they are. Starfleet doesn't need a Ministry of Dirty Tricks and it goes against everything that Roddenberry was trying to create in a hopeful future.
I wouldn't be entirely surprised if, while Section 31 has technically existed since the foundation of the Federation (like the Culper Ring or something), the version shown was put together very quickly as a response to the Dominion War, which is arguably the first overwhelming existential threat the Federation has faced for which having a Ministry of Pissing About might actually be helpful (it probably wouldn't have been any use against the Borg). It's still a terrible idea but mostly the result of institutional panic.
Edit: corrected Culpeper Ring to Culper Ring, since that's what I actually meant.
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payn
Glory to Marik
Thats... a good point. I think the DS9 S31 was implied to be capable and likely doing this kind of thing, but it was off screen. You didnt really know how big S31 was, or how terrible, Sloan was sort of the only window into it. I liked it better that way. Especially, since it served no purpose in Picard other than to give motivation to the villain.
