D&D General Why do we color-code Dragons?

you know, sometimes i wonder if the designers put the knowledge skills in the game for like, a purpose or if they and their bonuses are just there as decoration on the character sheet

(a similar thought is had about social skills)
 

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In what supplement do I find the draconic color wheel?
Dragon # 65 Where are the missing dragons 1982 :)

Anyway I've just been reading up on the Laidly Wyrm of Spindlestone Heughs and got to thinking that having dragons as species was probably a mistake from the start. The powerful True Dragons should really be unique entities on the level of Arch-Fae and the gods. So Ashardalon is The Red Dragon as a unique title not a species designation. Thermberchauld is The Wyrmsmith - no indication of its color-code, just that its associated with a Forge. Having creatures like The Laidly Wyrm as unique Fae-Dragon allows a whole lot of cool lore to be laid down and means that the characters knowledge of the creature is limited to the Story Lore that the character discovers

and just out of interest - how many people have actually used more than one adult+ dragon of the same species-type in the same campaign?
 
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you know, sometimes i wonder if the designers put the knowledge skills in the game for like, a purpose or if they and their bonuses are just there as decoration on the character sheet

(a similar thought is had about social skills)
I cannot speak to what the designers themselves intended, at least for most editions.

But I can say, at least for me, I prefer it when they are much more than that. Which is one of the reasons why 4e's skill philosophy (separately from its design) is by far my favorite of any edition.

Because in 4e, skills are chonky.* If you are trained in Arcana, you aren't just able to identify a spell being cast. You know the academic (but not necessarily practical) details of ritual magic. You can identify supernatural effects, even if you don't necessarily practice that type of magic yourself (e.g. you can tell if something is divine, but not necessarily its source, while someone trained in Religion could identify the source, but not necessarily the details of how it works).

I find that History is the best litmus test skill here. In games where, as you say, knowledge skills are a "decoration on the character sheet", you can generally tell this fairly quickly because the skill won't have any application outside of descriptive fluff text. Conversely, when it does matter, History becomes an incredibly useful skill, because it covers much more than just a dry chronological accounting of events. History, for example, is the skill for knowing battle strategies, by which I mean grand-strategy, "literally conducting a military campaign" type stuff--which means you can use it to survey the enemy's disposition of forces to try to predict what they're doing. Paired with good maps, it's useful for triangulating locations of historical places. Observing an item, it's useful for distinguishing forgeries from genuine articles, and for connecting artistic styles to particular cultures or (for more recent works) particular creators. And it has subtle social uses and implications, as it takes on roles like etiquette rules for different social groups, or myths and legends of a particular culture to indicate the values or norms of said culture.

Chonky skills make the game, IMO and IME, much more engaging and exciting, because it means players start thinking about things by asking questions, rather than only thinking in terms of how to survive (and, as a consequence, how to maximize character performance to ensure survival). "Thin" skills, skills that only have narrow, predefined uses and can't be used for anything not pre-defined, instead very much discourage creativity and exploratory choices, because they mean most creative actions are at best a waste of time and often actually harmful. This results in both character homogenization (everyone is good at Perception, Athletics/Acrobatics, and Intimidate, for example) and behavior flattening, where players will simply not care about other stuff--it has no value beyond descriptive text, and if the descriptive text were useful, it wouldn't be locked behind a single skill.

*In theory they should be so in 5e as well, but I've never seen it play out that way, and people don't describe running them that way either. I don't know why. The text gives no reason for doing so and multiple reasons for not doing so...but people do it anyway. It's a 3e-ism that actually defies the text and I genuinely can't explain why this happens, but it's a pattern I and others have seen.
 

*In theory they should be so in 5e as well, but I've never seen it play out that way, and people don't describe running them that way either. I don't know why. The text gives no reason for doing so and multiple reasons for not doing so...but people do it anyway. It's a 3e-ism that actually defies the text and I genuinely can't explain why this happens, but it's a pattern I and others have seen.
Wait that's not how everyone runs games? I just assumed that's how skills work.
 

Wait that's not how everyone runs games? I just assumed that's how skills work.
It should be! Like this is genuinely one of the few areas where 5e did just...straight-up copy 4e's homework without alteration. And then people chose to run it in a much less interesting way, for reasons that defy my ability to understand or explain.
 

Dragon # 65 Where are the missing dragons 1982 :)

Anyway I've just been reading up on the Laidly Wyrm of Spindlestone Heughs and got to thinking that having dragons as species was probably a mistake from the start. The powerful True Dragons should really be unique entities on the level of Arch-Fae and the gods. So Ashardalon is The Red Dragon as a unique title not a species designation. Thermberchauld is The Wyrmsmith - no indication of its color-code, just that its associated with a Forge. Having creatures like The Laidly Wyrm as unique Fae-Dragon allows a whole lot of cool lore to be laid down and means that the characters knowledge of the creature is limited to the Story Lore that the character discovers

and just out of interest - how many people have actually used more than one adult+ dragon of the same species-type in the same campaign?
In my old B/X campaign that ran about 2.5 years during the pandemic the PCs fought against white dragons (2 adults), 1 green, and one black over the course of the adventure
 

I find that History is the best litmus test skill here. In games where, as you say, knowledge skills are a "decoration on the character sheet", you can generally tell this fairly quickly because the skill won't have any application outside of descriptive fluff text. Conversely, when it does matter, History becomes an incredibly useful skill, because it covers much more than just a dry chronological accounting of events. History, for example, is the skill for knowing battle strategies, by which I mean grand-strategy, "literally conducting a military campaign" type stuff--which means you can use it to survey the enemy's disposition of forces to try to predict what they're doing.
I like how Pathfinder 2 has a skill for Society, which basically covers everything dealing with people ("local history, important personalities, legal institutions, societal structure, and humanoid cultures"). I'd extend it to knowledge of some geography as well, at least as pertains to various settlements and national borders and such. When running 5e, that's basically what I do with History as well.
Chonky skills make the game, IMO and IME, much more engaging and exciting, because it means players start thinking about things by asking questions, rather than only thinking in terms of how to survive (and, as a consequence, how to maximize character performance to ensure survival). "Thin" skills, skills that only have narrow, predefined uses and can't be used for anything not pre-defined, instead very much discourage creativity and exploratory choices, because they mean most creative actions are at best a waste of time and often actually harmful.
I can see the use for both, but it depends on how skills work in the game. In a primarily skill-based system my preference is generally for broad skills with optional specializations. But I'm also somewhat fond of the ridiculously narrow "expertise" or "characteristic" skills found in the Swedish RPG Eon. You both have relatively broad skills like History or Warfare or Leadership, but as part of the character creation process you can also get narrow Expertises like Food Tasting, Brothel Knowledge or Quote Libera (the equivalent of the Bible in part of the setting), or Characteristics like Smells Good, Scar, or Friend to Animals. These are generally easier to raise, and can be very useful if you can find a way to apply them, but in most cases you can get by with the "normal" skills.

Another instance where narrow skills work well is when they act as a bonus on top of what is expected, and ideally when you get a fairly large number of them. The former was, I think, part of the intended design for 5e, but it's not how things have developed with skill use. That's why the game usually refers to things like "DC 13 Intelligence (Arcana) check" – it's not meant to be a check requiring Arcana proficiency, it's meant to be an Intelligence check that gets easier if you're proficient in Arcana. But I think a lot of DMs still rely on old habits where many skill checks required you to have the actual skill, particularly for knowledge-type stuff. Personally, I'd be more inclined to do the opposite: give a PC with the right proficiency an automatic success, or at least a partial success, without even rolling. For example, in Eberron someone with proficiency in Religion should know all the Sovereigns (including the Dark Six), along with their basic portfolios and tenets and such. But they might not immediately grasp that the goddess Rowa of the Jungle Leaves worshipped by giant clans in the vicinity of Stormreach is identified as the same as the Sovereign Host goddess Arawai.
 

you know, sometimes i wonder if the designers put the knowledge skills in the game for like, a purpose or if they and their bonuses are just there as decoration on the character sheet

(a similar thought is had about social skills)
I think that WotC should have a wealth of DDB data on how often each skill is rolled, and should recalibrate the distribution of skills to make them much more balanced in their utility. I suspect that if you consolidated all of the knowledge skills into one skill (call it "Lore"), it would get used about as often as Perception.

That said, you might add another "Creature Lore" skill that could give the character specific knowledge of creature strengths and weaknesses (e.g. different colour dragons). Give rangers automatic expertise.
 

In my old B/X campaign that ran about 2.5 years during the pandemic the PCs fought against white dragons (2 adults), 1 green, and one black over the course of the adventure
My Spelljammer game that ended this month had the party up against three dragons, one fey-touched adult white, one mirage dragon from a DMs Guild adventure, and one adult purple dragon that had a bunch of minions.

The last of those was one heck of a fight and nearly cost the party warlock her life after she taunted the bastard.
 

3e kobolds were green, 5e ones are red.
There have been variant kobolds of various colors at various points, and the coloring on the main entry art in 3rd/3.5 was ambiguous, but 3rd/3.5 kobolds by text description were the same color as older D&D kobolds.
  1. "The hide of kobolds runs from very dark rusty brown to a rusty black. They have no hair." -- Advanced Dungeons & Dragons (1st edition) Monster Manual, p.57.
  2. "They have scaly rust-brown skin and no hair." -- Dungeons & Dragons Basic Set (Moldvay), p.B37
  3. "They have scaly, rust-brown skin and no hair." -- Dungeons & Dragons Basic Set (Mentzer), Dungeon Masters Rulebook, p.32
  4. "Barely clearing three feet in height, kobolds have scaly hides that range from very dark rusty brown to a rusty black." -- Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 2nd edition Monstrous Compendium Volume 1, Kobold page
  5. "They have scaly, rust-brown skin no hair." -- Dungeons & Dragons Rules Cyclopedia, p.187
  6. "Barely clearing three feet in height, kobolds have scaly hides that range from very dark rusty brown to a rusty black." -- Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 2nd edition Monstrous Manual, p.214
  7. "A kobold's scaly skin ranges from a dark rusty brown to a rusty black color." -- Dungeons & Dragons 3rd edition Monster Manual, p.124
  8. "A kobold's scaly skin ranges from a dark rusty brown to a rusty black color." -- Dungeons & Dragons 3.5e Monster Manual, p.161
Note that the original D&D booklets had no description of kobolds at all, the Holmes set described them as being dwarf-like. The text for none of the 4th edition Monster Manual, 4th edition Monster Vault, or 5th edition Monster Manual give what color a kobold is. The 5.24 Monster Manual says "Kobolds' scales resemble those of chromatic dragons that live near their warrens."

[EDIT: I typo'd "love near their warrens" for 5.24 originally. 5.24 does not actually imply that the dragons are breeding with kobolds.]

Those claiming that kobolds were originally dog-humanoids can note that the AD&D 1e Monster Manual:
  1. Said, as quoted above, "They have no hair."
  2. Mentioned that, that "If 200 or more kobolds are encountered in their lair there will be the following additional creatures there: 5-20 guards (as bodyguards above), females equal to 50% of the total number, young equal to 10% of the total number, and 30-300 eggs." [Emphasis added]
  3. Had art depicting them covered in scales on both pages 57 and 58 (though, sure, that could be easily mistaken for scale armor).
  4. Did not mention the word "dog" or any variations on it even once.
The first time the monster entry for kobolds for any version of D&D mentions "dog" or any variations on it was Moldvay (using calling them "small, evil dog-like men") -- but it's also the first entry that the text explicitly establishes their skin as being "scaly". It is understandable that readers starting from Moldvay, Mentzer, or the Rules Cyclopedia could notice the "dog-like" and miss the contradicting "scaly" (and I note JRPG depictions of kobolds probably start from the Japanese translation of the Basic Set), but D&D 3rd's Monster Manual didn't actually change what kobolds were in D&D lore. Starting with the original Monster Manual, kobolds were consistently land-dwelling, hairless, and scaly, and AD&D entries always mentioned they had eggs. Well, land-dwelling, hairless, scaly, egg-layers are quite fairly described as "reptilian". 3rd edition then reconciled the Moldvay/Mentzer/RC entry with the well-established reptilian features by mentioning kobolds had a "doglike head" (and the heads of the kobolds were rather dog-like in the 1st edition Monster Manual artwork, more so than in 3rd).

The biggest actual change to what kobolds are wasn't at the start of 3rd, but how they became progressively more associated with dragons during the course of 3.x. The 3rd edition Monster Manual did have them speak Draconic, but it did the same thing to lizardfolk and troglodytes, which accounts for all three Humanoid (Reptilian) monsters in that book. Why did kobolds get dragonized in particular? Well, the 3rd edition Player's Handbook mentions on p.49 that . . .
Arcane spellcasters from savage lands or from among the brutal humanoids are more likely to be sorcerers than wizards. Kobolds are especially likely to take up this path, and they are fierce, if inarticulate, proponents of the "blood of the dragons" theory.
. . . and in addition to speaking Draconic, that seems to be all the suggestion that was needed. Mongoose's Slayer's Guide to Kobolds in 2003 seems to have all kobolds claiming a connection, and by 2006, WotC's Races of the Dragon includes kobolds.
 
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