D&D 5E (2024) The Great Wizard Extinction.

[Stalker0]

I would argue Arcana checks are one of the most requested skill checks in a good portion of games, probably the most common knowledge check. So the wizard gets a solid advantage there.

Also the 5th level memorize spell is incredibly powerful. the wizard being able to go "give me an hour and I will have the perfect solution to that problem" is a big deal.

 

[Mort]

I would argue Arcana checks are one of the most requested skill checks in a good portion of games, probably the most common knowledge check. So the wizard gets a solid advantage there.

Also the 5th level memorize spell is incredibly powerful. the wizard being able to go "give me an hour and I will have the perfect solution to that problem" is a big deal.

One of the most common houserules I've seen (Even before BG3), and occasionally used, is the 5 minute short rest (usually limit 2 between long rests).

This, of course, benefits all classes that have a short rest reset mechanic, but REALLY gives this feature some oomph - making their out of combat utility (or anticipating a specific combat - utility) near impossible to match (when it was excellent already).

 

[Cergorach]

n=1

Keep in mind that during the LONG AD&D2e era the core option was Wizard. And a LOT of us came into that from Basic D&D and/or HeroQuest (with also Wizard). Then came D&D 3e, with the Sorcerer added as a core class, book mage vs. natural mage. Suddenly a lot of folks started playing Sorcerer, it was new, after the initial 'newness' wore off, people just used it as just another non-divine spellcaster option. And while some might look at the power level of the different classes and will choose the most powerful one, most don't.

Many of us skipped 4e, and with 5e adding in the Warlock, many went again for the 'newness'. I wasn't one of those a decade ago though. But with our last campaign (on pause), I needed a non-divine spellcaster, something that was easy to play in and out of the session. Warlock was the one with the least amount of moving parts among the three, not because it's more powerful, not because it's new (to me), not because it's cool (although I made it cool), it was because I had already too many plates spinning and this was the non-divine spellcaster which required the least amount of brainpower to operate... A good choice we found out later, as for a LONG while I was playing this character and also making all the maps/encounters ad-hoc in our Foundry VTT game was started up a couple of sessions after we started playing. Not having too many options is bliss when you're also trying to draw the next chamber and managing the monsters for the DM...

We rotate DMing in our group, and now it's my turn, we started a new party (with the previous campaign on-hold for the next DM). One of the players is playing a Wizard. Why? Because they tend to play casters, Cleric, Bard, etc. in this case a Wizard. In our group, we haven't played an Artificer yet (I think), and a Druid is bloody rare for us. It really depends on what kinda concept we have in our heads at a particular time, and we try to compliment each other's characters (role). How that translates completely depends on your group.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

You are correct that the frequency saves does depend on the setting and what monsters are used. But there are two caveats there:

1) Since we are all talking in generals, there are saves that are more common than others. I think its a very reasonable statement to say characters will make Con/Dex/Wis saves more often than Str/Int/Cha saves the majority of the time in the majority of games.

No one denies that.

2) Con saves are going to be quite frequent for any caster just because of concentration spells. So boosts to con saves is going to be very useful to a caster irregardless of the monsters they fight

Yes. Frequent. If you are being hit. Wisdom saves can easily instantly snap out your concentration in fights that matter. Actually, one should really look at fights that matter. Enemy spellcasters are usually in those fights. Illithids are in those fights.

If there are no spellcasters, the enemies often had no real chance to win in the first place.

 

[Zardnaar]

Yes. As I said. If you are targeted by something that incapacitates you, con does not help.

Yeah. There are enemy spellcasters though.

Does not matter. The question is how frequent monsters appear. An underdark campaign might have a significant higher frequency of mind flayers.

The line of argumentation is used often, but totally not based on reality. There are a lot of monsters that are very rarely encountered. And monsters that are more frequent. You will face a lot more humanoids than dragons or tarrasques etc.

Yes. But the odds of having to make one increase drastically once you are in such a campaign.

?

Actually I mainly said, the wizard is way better at wisdom saves than sorcerers.
They add prof bonus to it.

?

OK roleplaying time.

Youre going into a campaign blind. Unfamiliar DM. Its set on FR. That's all you know.

Game starts at level 3 let's go with that.

 

[Zardnaar]

I would argue Arcana checks are one of the most requested skill checks in a good portion of games, probably the most common knowledge check. So the wizard gets a solid advantage there.

Also the 5th level memorize spell is incredibly powerful. the wizard being able to go "give me an hour and I will have the perfect solution to that problem" is a big deal.

You get that spell level 9. Around 10% of games go tgat high according to WotC.

Also I'm not disputing Wizards grow into a great class. Its how long they take to get there.

When I rate classes I mostly focus 1-6, 10 max beyond that I don't care to much.

Best class at level 15 Is essentially meaningless mist of the time.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

OK roleplaying time.

Youre going into a campaign blind. Unfamiliar DM. Its set on FR. That's all you know.

Game starts at level 3 let's go with that.

Does not matter. I play what I feel like.
I won't regret my choice either way.

Generally I'd try to not be stuck in melee with my caster. And have a shield spell ready for archers. And hope I make my will saves.
I'd take enough ritual spells to feel useful out of combat.

 

[Zardnaar]

Does not matter. I play what I feel like.
I won't regret my choice either way.

Generally I'd try to not be stuck in melee with my caster. And have a shield spell ready for archers. And hope I make my will saves.
I'd take enough ritual spells to feel useful out of combat.

I won't covertly specialize in anything. Main point is you probably wont engounter mind flayers that often if at all.

Sone NPCs cast spells but they don't generally target int save. Of the 9 spells or so that exist most are 5.0. You won't find them on 5.5 monsters.

5.0 theyre not in phb so don't turn up on NPC spell lists.

Of the very rare monsters with intelligence saves 5.0 had something like 3-5 of them in the MM. 2 of them were mind flayers and intellect devourer.

5.5 I don't know the exact number but its very rare.

Most part you're looking at DM specials and non core books.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I won't covertly specialize in anything. Main point is you probably wont engounter mind flayers that often if at all.

As I said, not my main point. That save compares to the charisma save of the sorcerer. Same main attribute. Same saving throw category (weak).
I really don't know why you still try to compare int saving throw with con saving throw.

Sone NPCs cast spells but they don't generally target int save. Of the 9 spells or so that exist most are 5.0. You won't find them on 5.5 monsters.

Again. That is building a straw man.

5.0 theyre not in phb so don't turn up on NPC spell lists.

???

Of the very rare monsters with intelligence saves 5.0 had something like 3-5 of them in the MM. 2 of them were mind flayers and intellect devourer.

Straw man...

5.5 I don't know the exact number but its very rare.

Again straw man.

Wizards are better at wisdom saves. Probably 1 point lower than sorcerer's con saves.

Most part you're looking at DM specials and non core books.

No. I am not.

 

[Mort]

OK roleplaying time.

Youre going into a campaign blind. Unfamiliar DM. Its set on FR. That's all you know.

Game starts at level 3 let's go with that.

Barbarian, because I've been dying to play a world-tree barbarian!

But not too distant 2nd - Wizard. It's FR, if it's the default, it's a wizard DREAM world for spells and other wizardly stuff.