Your top 5 sci-fi movies (and why)

[The Soloist]

Today, the outfit annoys me. C'mon, it is entirely unnecessary.

But when it was released, the outfit bothered me. It really bothered me. It definitely made me very, very bothered.

Spoiler: Random Thoughts

I wonder if there has to be at least a small correlation between Leia's costume in Return of the Jedi and the subsequent mainstreaming of Bad Design Subsequently Modified (ahem) in the '90s and '00s. Because in a movie for kids with teddy bears, that certainly was a choice.

No one ever talks about the ludicrous 'six tits' dancer in Jubba's Lair!

 

[Zaukrie]

I have to disagree. I think they stick the landing despite the Ewoks. Even the battle on Endor has classic moments like Han and Leia and the bunker blast doors.

I think the only film trilogy which tops it is LotR. Heck, I'm going to spin that off as a new thread.

I hate the ending. You can't fight evil unless you turn evil first is a terrible message. Terrible. Luke fighting evil doesn't make him evil. Doesn't turn him to the dark side. Indeed, I'd argue fighting evil is the only way to actually beat it.

 

[The Firebird]

I hate the ending. You can't fight evil unless you turn evil first is a terrible message. Terrible. Luke fighting evil doesn't make him evil. Doesn't turn him to the dark side. Indeed, I'd argue fighting evil is the only way to actually beat it.

They didn't turn the Emperor or the stormtroopers or the TIE pilots. The point is more that redemption is possible and it is worth having faith in people; that when Darth Vader says "it is too late for me", he's wrong.

Likewise with the rest of Star Wars. The use of force isn't a priori wrong. Blowing up the Death Star was good. Liberating Naboo was good. But once force is used, there is a a temptation to go too far. We have the power, so why don't we use it to fix everything? This well-meaning drive is what leads the Jedi into extinction and is the cause of Vader's fall.

The solution isn't to never use force but to temper it with wisdom.

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I've yet to see a deep dive on this but I find it really interesting how Avatar: The Last Airbender mirrors the OT. The second season finale is a blow-by-blow remake of Empire. The climactic battle and the decision to not just kill 'em all, likewise.

 

[Ryujin]

I hate the ending. You can't fight evil unless you turn evil first is a terrible message. Terrible. Luke fighting evil doesn't make him evil. Doesn't turn him to the dark side. Indeed, I'd argue fighting evil is the only way to actually beat it.

Yeah, the "fighting fire with fire" thing just means lots of fire. It's only valid if the fire you're fighting is of the forest variety.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I hate the ending. You can't fight evil unless you turn evil first is a terrible message. Terrible. Luke fighting evil doesn't make him evil. Doesn't turn him to the dark side. Indeed, I'd argue fighting evil is the only way to actually beat it.

Not the message. Fighting evil is fine, Yoda and Obi Wan killed lots of bad guys. The issue is doing it without fear, anger or hate. And Luke didn’t have the training, or the temperament, to be able to control his emotions. Which is why Yoda was so reluctant to start him down that path. It was only Anakin overcoming the Dark Side, something that neither Yoda nor Palpatine thought possible, that led to a Light Side victory.

 

[Zaukrie]

Not the message. Fighting evil is fine, Yoda and Obi Wan killed lots of bad guys. The issue is doing it without fear, anger or hate. And Luke didn’t have the training, or the temperament, to be able to control his emotions. Which is why Yoda was so reluctant to start him down that path. It was only Anakin overcoming the Dark Side, something that neither Yoda nor Palpatine thought possible, that led to a Light Side victory.

That's not the message sent. It really isn't. They only win because of love at the end. Try that in the real world..... And we don't see either of them doing so I'm the first three movies.

 

[Mannahnin]

I hate the ending. You can't fight evil unless you turn evil first is a terrible message. Terrible. Luke fighting evil doesn't make him evil. Doesn't turn him to the dark side. Indeed, I'd argue fighting evil is the only way to actually beat it.

The point is more that redemption is possible and it is worth having faith in people; that when Darth Vader says "it is too late for me", he's wrong.

Agreed. Luke was right. And he was winning when he was calm and controlled. It was when he lost faith in himself and in his father and let his anger take over that he nearly failed. The strength of passion and rage allowed him to beat down Vader (and even that was probably because deep-down Anakin didn't want to fight back with full strength), but not the real enemy. To win he had to refuse to kill Vader. Vader didn't take out the Emperor because he had turned evil first, but because at the end he loved his son and refused to stay evil. Evil contained the seeds of its own destruction.

 

[Zaukrie]

Agreed. Luke was right. And he was winning when he was calm and controlled. It was when he lost faith in himself and in his father and let his anger take over that he nearly failed. The strength of passion and rage allowed him to beat down Vader (and even that was probably because deep-down Anakin didn't want to fight back with full strength), but not the real enemy. To win he had to refuse to kill Vader. Vader didn't take out the Emperor because he had turned evil first, but because at the end he loved his son and refused to stay evil. Evil contained the seeds of its own destruction.

Try that in real life. Counting on evil to turn to love.

 

[The Soloist]

Try that in real life. Counting on evil to turn to love.

While I agree with you in principale, let's not forget that the original Star Wars trilogy has its own internal rules. Vader/Anakin is redeemed with his last minute action against the Emperor. His dark points ledger is erased by his action.

Star Wars is a mythic fable of good versus evil, nothing more. It doesn't model real life. It never intended to.

 

[Zaukrie]

While I agree with you in principale, let's not forget that the original Star Wars trilogy has its own internal rules. Vader/Anakin is redeemed with his last minute action against the Emperor. His dark points ledger is erased by his action.

Star Wars is a mythic fable of good versus evil, nothing more. It doesn't model real life. It never intended to.

So many fantasy stories rely on this, and people point to them as some kind of inspiration, and to me? It's an insidious message meant to distract us. I'm cool with others not agreeing in that point, but the message is clear. You can't really fight evil. Or, you can't fight the source, only the pawns? Obi wan and Yoda do zero fighting in the original. And they are the ideal .