D&D General Why Enworld should liberate D&D from Hasbro

[Zardnaar]

You do know that you are arguing with the person who was in charge of D&D at WotC until 2022, right?

Link to 5E sales didnt work.

The links to old TSR era sales are fine and numbers have been well established by now.

Concrete numbers fir 3.5, 4E abd 5E if anyone has any.....

 

[Umbran]

So the marketing strategy, in part, is that WotC wants players seeking out "romance adventures" to alight on D&D first, before they stumble across the likes of Monsterhearts...

I think it is simpler than that.

I think WotC wants folks who care about diversity and representation to know that WotC welcomes them as customers, even if some players don't.

 

[Gradine]

I think it is simpler than that.

I think WotC wants folks who care about diversity and representation to know that WotC welcomes them as customers, even if some players don't.

And, by the by, if this is what people are hoping for ENWorld, of all institutions, to liberate D&D from, I've got some pretty bad news for you.

 

[Gradine]

You really think that twitter image is going to be timeless? It was already dated before it was posted.

What, specifically, makes the art so dated?

 

[SlyFlourish]

I know, there are other games, besides D&D... Things like The Spire/Heart, Mothership, etc. are still on my wishlist to play with my group. And I suspect that a Pathfinder 2e would serve well as a replacement for D&D, but none of your options and the games I mentioned are actually D&D. And that's what we're discussing here.

Many of us have (unhealthy) attachments to D&D, for most of us it's perfectly fine to either play the most recent version or an older version. So why care about WotC in the first place, they either make something you like, you use something you liked from the past or you move on to something else... You could play with the PF2e rules perfectly fine in Forgotten Realms, Ravenloft, or even Planescape IF you really wanted.

I personally find something like 'Daggerheart' a populist abomination. The worst I do is share my view when someone else absolutely has to tout it as the best thing since vanilla ice cream. Overall, I just ignore it, just as with many of the things I do not like about D&D and WotC/Hasbro. Not trying to change them, let people and companies be what they want to be. Not trying to buy them to destroy them, etc.

Overall, late last year, I was seriously considering pushing within the group to skip D&D 5e 2024 and move to PF2e, there was even some independent interest in PF2e from within the group. But after we collectively got our hands on the new PHB, we decided to move after we talked it over amongst ourselves.


in a Beegees voice Oh Yeah!

Old things always come back in vogue, it's just that a lot of the old baggage is no longer appreciated. Something a lot of folks seem to forget...

Aside from the D&D brand, which WOTC purchased and was then purchased by Hasbro, I argue that 13th Age is as much D&D as 4th edition is. Maybe moreso since the designers didn't have corporate mandates that guided design. Same with Pathfinder.

I bring it up because I often see a lot of "I sure wish Hasbro would make the perfect D&D I have in my head" ignoring the dozens of RPGs doing what they want.

As far as I'm concerned, Shadowdark is as much D&D as any of them from 2nd edition on. No one working on D&D above 1st Edition actually came up with the brand. Everyone else bought it or bought their way in. The rest is just trademark law.

 

[SlyFlourish]

And, by the by, if this is what people are hoping for ENWorld, of all institutions, to liberate D&D from, I've got some pretty bad news for you.

Oh wow. Is this what the thread is actually all about?

 

[Gradine]

Oh wow. Is this what the thread is actually all about?

From the OP? It really doesn't seem like it. But a few folks brought up that specific piece of artwork while agreeing with the OP's take or otherwise diminishing WotC's claims over D&D, and for those folks, yes, that does seem to be at least partially what it's actually about.

 

[Cergorach]

What, specifically, makes the art so dated?

My best guess: prejudice...

Sidenote: That illustration wants me to barf rainbows! I have no issue with the subject matter, but I strongly dislike the illustration style. And while the Beholder in love is cute, it's imho at best a playful illustration. If this is your D&D game, and you like it that way, have fun! More power to you! But I tend to like other illustration styles and a bit more grim demeanor from my Beholders (they don't know what love is!).

I wonder why a lot of the LGBTQIA+ illustrations go with such a style, or is it that everyone would get highly uncomfortable if we had Frank Frazetta or Brom illustrations that had a strong LGBTQIA+ theme?

 

[Gradine]

My best guess: prejudice...

Sidenote: That illustration wants me to barf rainbows! I have no issue with the subject matter, but I strongly dislike the illustration style. And while the Beholder in love is cute, it's imho at best a playful illustration. If this is your D&D game, and you like it that way, have fun! More power to you! But I tend to like other illustration styles and a bit more grim demeanor from my Beholders (they don't know what love is!).

I wonder why a lot of the LGBTQIA+ illustrations go with such a style, or is it that everyone would get highly uncomfortable if we had Frank Frazetta or Brom illustrations that had a strong LGBTQIA+ theme?

There is a lot of overlap between queer aesthetics and "cozy" aesthetics (which this artwork seems to be leaning into), that, like all things, is not at all universal but I think at least strongly correlated. If I had to wager a guess as to the causation between the two, well, with everything going on well... everywhere at this point, the reason might just be simple escapism.

 

[Zardnaar]

My best guess: prejudice...

Sidenote: That illustration wants me to barf rainbows! I have no issue with the subject matter, but I strongly dislike the illustration style. And while the Beholder in love is cute, it's imho at best a playful illustration. If this is your D&D game, and you like it that way, have fun! More power to you! But I tend to like other illustration styles and a bit more grim demeanor from my Beholders (they don't know what love is!).

I wonder why a lot of the LGBTQIA+ illustrations go with such a style, or is it that everyone would get highly uncomfortable if we had Frank Frazetta or Brom illustrations that had a strong LGBTQIA+ theme?

The arts terrible lol.

Its existence doesn't offend me what so ever. No one's forcing you to buy it. Arts so subjective as well. More than most things I dont like Picasso either barbarian that I am.