D&D 5E (2014) Thoughts on bonus action potions?

[AlViking]

As often as PCs get slammed backwards, knocked prone, fall 10+ feet, get hit by giants, ogres, trolls, weapons, etc., exposed potions like that(or on a belt) are likely going to be lost or shatter before you ever get to drink them.

Which is why the containers weigh so much. Problem solved.

 

[Distracted DM]

I think this ends up being a conversation about bonus actions, at least in part. Bonus actions have grown far, far bigger than their original design intent, which IIRC Mike Mearls called a band-aid and something the designer(s) regret. But players like them, because it means they can do more on their turn! (Some) players being so obsessed with "making full use of your action economy" is something of a PITA to me as a GM, because it ends up making player turns a lot longer than they have to be, and that level of focus on action efficiency is sort of a mood-killer to me when I'm running a game... but I can't fault players for wanting to squeeze every bit of potency out of their turns if they're trying to succeed.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

They still had an out of combat use.

True for potions of healing--which for some reason everyone is fixating on.

I don't really care about potions of healing in combat. What I care about are those combat buff potions like giant strength or enlarge that my party has sitting around in their inventory for a year because it's never worth taking an action on. And that isn't even me doing the math and realizing it would take X rounds if combat for the gain to make up for the delay caused by not using your action on something offensive: that's just the players' correct gut feeling it's not worth it.

 

[Maxperson]

They still had an out of combat use.

Rarely.

 

[Distracted DM]

True for potions of healing--which for some reason everyone is fixating on.

I don't really care about potions of healing in combat. What I care about are those combat buff potions like giant strength or enlarge that my party has sitting around in their inventory for a year because it's never worth taking an action on. And that isn't even me doing the math and realizing it would take X rounds if combat for the gain to make up for the delay caused by not using your action on something offensive: that's just the players' correct gut feeling it's not worth it.

Those potions all last a least a minute, and some like giant strength an hour or more! With a little information-gathering or scouting, the party can easily drink potions before they get into a fight- potions don't make loud noises like spellcasting either, so the folk on the other side of the door won't be alerted.

Like many things, it's probably a case of different table traditions. I imagine some tables just have continuous encounters "happening" to them, so they never have time to gather information, they just react to whatever the GM cooks up. "OK you're in the dungeon. You go to the first room, there are orcs there, roll for initiative." "OK the orcs are dead, you looted them and move on to the next room, there's a weird opera battle going on there between a beholder and a gibbering mouther, they get annoyed that you interrupted so you either join in or roll initiative."
Either that, or players just don't know that they could/would/should information-gather beforehand so they can drink potions before they get into a fight... or, I guess, they're not being pushed/challenged enough so they never feel the need to improve their methods outside of combat.

Actually players apparently not drinking potions before/after combat makes me wonder.. what about spellcasters? Is no one casting the buff spells before a fight either? Some spells last 10 minutes, or an hour, but even a minute spell can potentially be cast before a fight.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

Those potions all last a least a minute, and some like giant strength an hour or more! With a little information-gathering or scouting, the party can easily drink potions before they get into a fight- potions don't make loud noises like spellcasting either, so the folk on the other side of the door won't be alerted.

Like many things, it's probably a case of different table traditions. I imagine some tables just have continuous encounters "happening" to them, so they never have time to gather information, they just react to whatever the GM cooks up. "OK you're in the dungeon. You go to the first room, there are orcs there, roll for initiative." "OK the orcs are dead, you looted them and move on to the next room, there's a weird opera battle going on there between a beholder and a gibbering mouther, they get annoyed that you interrupted so you either join in or roll initiative."
Either that, or players just don't know that they could/would/should information-gather beforehand so they can drink potions before they get into a fight... or, I guess, they're not being pushed/challenged enough so they never feel the need to improve their methods outside of combat.

Actually players apparently not drinking potions before/after combat makes me wonder.. what about spellcasters? Is no one casting the buff spells before a fight either? Some spells last 10 minutes, or an hour, but even a minute spell can potentially be cast before a fight.

They eventually used one or two of them because they did have an opportunity to prepare (assault on the Sahuagin fortress in Ghosts of Saltmarsh after scouting it with a familiar, and then ambushing the local Scarlet Brotherhood meeting after months of investigation).

But that is the exception. In dungeons taking short rests is a thing, and many encounters aren't easy to spot ahead of time. And when you can spot them and prepare, you aren't going to prepare with expensive consumable resources when you can cast spells instead.

And then there are random wilderness encounters, which is one of my favorite parts of D&D.

The only times they make sense to use is when they actually did get used: a climatic encounter that had been building up to for a while, they had the opportunity to prepare for immediately before, and knew it would be tough enough to justify putting non-renewable resources into.

So for us, that's been about three times in 6 years.

 

[Maxperson]

Those potions all last a least a minute, and some like giant strength an hour or more! With a little information-gathering or scouting, the party can easily drink potions before they get into a fight- potions don't make loud noises like spellcasting either, so the folk on the other side of the door won't be alerted.

Like many things, it's probably a case of different table traditions. I imagine some tables just have continuous encounters "happening" to them, so they never have time to gather information, they just react to whatever the GM cooks up. "OK you're in the dungeon. You go to the first room, there are orcs there, roll for initiative." "OK the orcs are dead, you looted them and move on to the next room, there's a weird opera battle going on there between a beholder and a gibbering mouther, they get annoyed that you interrupted so you either join in or roll initiative."
Either that, or players just don't know that they could/would/should information-gather beforehand so they can drink potions before they get into a fight... or, I guess, they're not being pushed/challenged enough so they never feel the need to improve their methods outside of combat.

Actually players apparently not drinking potions before/after combat makes me wonder.. what about spellcasters? Is no one casting the buff spells before a fight either? Some spells last 10 minutes, or an hour, but even a minute spell can potentially be cast before a fight.

Sometimes you know in advance, and sometimes you don't. Sometimes when you have advanced notice, you want to drink a potion. Potions being drunk before combat is sometimes of sometimes, which equates to rarely.

 

[Maxperson]

They eventually used one or two of them because they did have an opportunity to prepare (assault on the Sahuagin fortress in Ghosts of Saltmarsh after scouting it with a familiar, and then ambushing the local Scarlet Brotherhood meeting after months of investigation).

But that is the exception. In dungeons taking short rests is a thing, and many encounters aren't easy to spot ahead of time. And when you can spot them and prepare, you aren't going to prepare with expensive consumable resources when you can cast spells instead.

And then there are random wilderness encounters, which is one of my favorite parts of D&D.

The only times they make sense to use is when they actually did get used: a climatic encounter that had been building up to for a while, they had the opportunity to prepare for immediately before, and knew it would be tough enough to justify putting non-renewable resources into.

So for us, that's been about three times in 6 years.

I think I saw maybe a half a dozen times in 5 years, which is still pretty darn rare.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

I should add that I want to see buff potions get used, but I don't want drinking basic healing potions mid-combat to become ubiquitous.

Maybe I could take a page from the weight debate, and say that a basic potion of healing is more volume than most potions (including the more expensive healing potions). They are cheap and easy to make, and you don't even have to be a spellcaster to do so, but they are much less concentrated than other potions, and so take an action to chug them.

But then my concern with that is it wouldn't get the players used to using them. Maybe I actually need to make them all bonus actions on a trial basis, and if basic healing potions become ubiquitous in combat, change those back to an action, and hopefully the players will have internalized that they can still usefully drink other potions as a bonus action by then.

 

[TwoSix]

I should add that I want to see buff potions get used, but I don't want drinking basic healing potions mid-combat to become ubiquitous.

Maybe I could take a page from the weight debate, and say that a basic potion of healing is more volume than most potions (including the more expensive healing potions). They are cheap and easy to make, and you don't even have to be a spellcaster to do so, but they are much less concentrated than other potions, and so take an action to chug them.

But then my concern with that is it wouldn't get the players used to using them. Maybe I actually need to make them all bonus actions on a trial basis, and if basic healing potions become ubiquitous in combat, change those back to an action, and hopefully the players will have internalized that they can still usefully drink other potions as a bonus action by then.

If there’s a specific concern about chain-chugging healing potions, you could always add some sort of “potion toxicity” rule. Like ingesting more than 2 potions within a minute poisons the character or something.