D&D 5E (2024) Thoughts on New Bladesinger?

[ECMO3]

nm

 

[ECMO3]

Unless youre using lots of 5.0 spells and a 5MWD

CME changes the equation later.

CME doesn't help that much because of the action to cast. It is the kind of spell I am talking about, but it is a lot better on a Fighter multiclass with Action Surge

 

[FrogReaver]

A one level dip gets masteries, second wind and fighting style.

Sure. But when are you taking that. Anytime before level 7 and you've delayed your extra attack.

Anytime after and you are delaying super valuable higher level spell slots.

A small percent will make it to one use of indom. Virtually no EK's get 3rd attack because D&D is essentially a 10 level game as far as most are concerned.

I'm fine with that assumption. It's even easier to balance out pre-level 11 than post level 11.

Moreover, its the whole package. Below 10 an EK gets very little compared to a bladesinger, valor bard, etc. Their spellcasting is garbage and the full caster fights roughly as well.

I'm sticking to the bladesinger comparison and it's just not true. Like even in a single encounter 4 round day it's going to go something like this.

Comparison

Level 7 Bladesinger (precasted mage armor/and a level 3 false life)

1. Turn 1: Bonus Action Blade Song. Action Cast Conjure Minor Elemental. Reaction Shield Spell.
2. Turn 2: Attack action for ~23.7 DPR. Reaction Shield Spell.
3. Turn 3: Attack action for ~23.7 DPR. Reaction Shield Spell.
4. Turn 4: Attack action for ~23.7 DPR. Reaction Shield Spell.

HP: ~63 (including temp hp, +3 con)
AC: ~24 (with shield spell, mage armor and +2 dex, +4 int)
Damage: ~71.1

Level 7 EK (precasted level 2 false life)

1. Turn 1: Bonus Action Magic Weapon. Attack action (Greatsword, Graze Mastery, GWM and +2 Str). Action Surge Attack Action. ~49.6 DPR. Reaction Shield Spell.
2. Turn 2: Attack action for ~24.8 DPR. Bonus Action Second Wind. Reaction Shield Spell.
3. Turn 3: Attack action for ~24.8 DPR. Bonus Action Second Wind. Reaction Shield Spell.
4. Turn 4: Attack action for ~24.8 DPR. Reaction Shield Spell.

HP: ~95 (including temp hp and 2 Second wind uses, +3 con)
AC: ~24 (with shield spell, full plate, defensive fighting style)
Damage: ~124

Conclusion

For this short adventuring day (a context we usually consider full casters being better for)
The EK does ~74% more damage and has ~51% more hp.

 

[FrogReaver]

CME doesn't help that much because of the action to cast. It is the kind of spell I am talking about, but it is a lot better on a Fighter multiclass with Action Surge

Yea. Action to cast really hurts. But bladesong is also a bonus action, so bonus action to cast it would also be rough for the Bladesinger.

 

[Zardnaar]

CME has a 10 minute duration iirc.

I've seen plenty of spirit guardians roll over.

Depends on how you play. Decent in a dungeon not so great elsewhere.

 

[Zardnaar]

So levels that matter blow all your spells on being a bad fighter.

I still like the class I would be looking at controller vs gish. At least to later on.

Its not going to look great vs a Paladin either I'm guessing.

Ranger splash lvl 2 or 9 im guessing?

 

[FrogReaver]

So levels that matter blow all your spells on being a bad fighter.

I still like the class I would be looking at controller vs gish. At least to later on.

Its not going to look great vs a Paladin either I'm guessing.

I find it a useful tactical option to have a backline PC that can engage enemies in melee if they try to run past the front line fighters/clerics/etc to get to back line squishy targets. It can help keep enemies off your even squishier allies. Especially if booming blade is an option to further deter running past you, and especially if you took warcaster as well.

Outside being a full wizard controller with near unbreakable concentration, that's the niche I see bladesingers excelling at.

 

[Zardnaar]

I find it a useful tactical option to have a backline PC that can engage enemies in melee if they try to run past the front line fighters/clerics/etc to get to back line squishy targets. It can help keep enemies off your even squishier allies. Especially if booming blade is an option to further deter running past you, and especially if you took warcaster as well.

Outside being a full wizard controller with near unbreakable concentration, that's the niche I see bladesingers excelling at.

I'm thinking concentration/control skirmisher until high levels.

Nice magic weapon could also swing things.

Warcaster as lvl 4 feat or something else?

 

[Tessarael]

One problem with Eldritch Knight, both in D&D 2014 and D&D 2024, is that they have to use a regular arcane focus. Their bonded weapon should be an arcane focus. Otherwise, you get item-in-hand shuffling silliness to use the arcane focus, e.g., holding two-handed weapon in one hand while using the arcane focus which is say hanging on a chain around your neck, then releasing the arcane focus to hold the weapon two-handed again on the same turn (seems potentially dodgy, as more than one free object interaction on a turn). Many groups will probably ignore this limitation, as it is silly in my opinion.

 

[FrogReaver]

So levels that matter blow all your spells on being a bad fighter.

I still like the class I would be looking at controller vs gish. At least to later on.

Its not going to look great vs a Paladin either I'm guessing.

Ranger splash lvl 2 or 9 im guessing?

Yea, basically. It might actually look worse vs a paladin lol. Dumping smites and having advantage on your attacks from say Vengance is going to be disgusting. Possibly shield spells as well from magic initiate and damn!

Just for funsies

Vengeance Paladin 7
HP ~68 (Level 3 slot for Aid)
AC ~24 (can take magic initiate for Shield)
Damage ~147

*(Level 3 slot on blinding smite, 3d8 damage and blinded so disadvantage to hit, save to end and the remaining level 2 slots on Divine Smite, also took GWM). Remaining slots for shield.

Compared to the Bladesinger that's 8% more hp and 106% more damage in the same 1 encounter 4 round adventuring day.