D&D 5E (2024) Thoughts on New Bladesinger?

[FrogReaver]

The Bladesinger, is not going to compete with a melee class character in their area of speciality but that is not the point. They are pretty good at melee but still a full class caster.

I don't think they are half as good at melee. Even in the level 3-10 range.

 

[ECMO3]

You . . . may wish to read up on the 5e24 Bladesong ability. It is not the same as the 2014 version.

For most Bladesingers, on most days, you will have 4-6 uses of Bladesong.

Here is the verbiage from FR:HOF

"You can invoke the Bladesong a number of times equal to your Intelligence modifier (minimum of once), and you regain all expended uses when you finish a Long Rest. You regain one expended use when you use Arcane Recovery."

So you are not going to typically have 6 uses on point buy in most of tier 1 and tier 2.

 

[Zardnaar]

I don't think they are half as good at melee. Even in the level 3-10 range.

Yeah play a cleric or druid instead.

CME abuse changes the equation even the nerfed version. That's a later problem.

Shadowblade+true strike is best you can do. Spirit shroud maybe. Then youre out of spells in 2-3 combats.

Comes back to my earlier statement about wizards. How does your DM run the game. That leans into situationally good. Hence my "low" rating.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

I'm struggling to see 2024 Bladesinger invalidating 2024 EK.

Weapon Masteries, Second Wind, Fighting Style, Extra Feat, Indomitable, 3rd extra attack, etc.

Like you build out a level 6 or 7 Bladesinger to use in melee and i'll build out a level 6 or 7 EK. I expect that when everything the EK gets is taken into account that it's going to be hard to call the melee bladesinger actually better at melee.

A one level dip gets masteries, second wind and fighting style. A small percent will make it to one use of indom. Virtually no EK's get 3rd attack because D&D is essentially a 10 level game as far as most are concerned.

Moreover, its the whole package. Below 10 an EK gets very little compared to a bladesinger, valor bard, etc. Their spellcasting is garbage and the full caster fights roughly as well.

 

[Zardnaar]

A one level dip gets masteries, second wind and fighting style. A small percent will make it to one use of indom. Virtually no EK's get 3rd attack because D&D is essentially a 10 level game as far as most are concerned.

Moreover, its the whole package. Below 10 an EK gets very little compared to a bladesinger, valor bard, etc. Their spellcasting is garbage and the full caster fights roughly as well.

They get a lot more.

Skills, second wind, action surge, extra feat, better feat options one that buffs dex or strength), indomitable and whatever they get level 7.

Fighters really stacked first 8 levels.

Bladesinger becomes ok around 6 and good maybe 8. If you're playing Gish vs control. S tier is another 2-5 levels away.

Fighters good from level 1. Wizards probably worst class in the game lvl 1.

 

[ECMO3]

Like you build out a level 6 or 7 Bladesinger to use in melee and i'll build out a level 6 or 7 EK. I expect that when everything the EK gets is taken into account that it's going to be hard to call the melee bladesinger actually better at melee.

If you are not using your spells or taking feats specifically for melee support Bladesinger certainly won't be better at level 7 assuming point buy abilities.

The fighter will have way more hps (2 per level plus more due to a higher Constitution), a comparable AC, same extra attack, one more ASI, plus all the things you mentioned.

They are comparable if you are using your spells specifically for melee support and the Bladesinger took the weapon mastery feat at level 4.

 

[Zardnaar]

If you are not using your spells or taking feats specifically for melee support Bladesinger certainly won't be better at level 7 assuming point buy abilities.

The fighter will have way more hps (2 per level plus more due to a higher Constitution), a comparable AC, same extra attack, one more ASI, plus all the things you mentioned.

They are comparable if you are using your spells specifically for melee support and the Bladesinger took the weapon mastery feat at level 4.

Then you dont have 18 intelligence?

Fighters getting another feat lvl 6. That's 20 strength/dex +feat or a 3 feat combo+20 str/dex lvl 8.

gwm+sentinel+slasher/piercer/crusher or shieldmaster/sentinel+weapon type.

Or warcaster, faetouched+another using hex/shillagh/truestrike combo. Hex is also origin feat now for EK.

That's a lot of damage.

 

[ECMO3]

A one level dip gets masteries, second wind and fighting style.

A PC with a 1-level dip in fighter is a fighter.

If your argument is a multiclass character can outperform a single class character at a certain specific predefined level or level range - I agree this is almost always true, but that is different than saying Bladesinger invalidates an Eldritch Knight.

A small percent will make it to one use of indom. Virtually no EK's get 3rd attack because D&D is essentially a 10 level game as far as most are concerned.

It is a small percentage that play Wizards at all, let alone multiclassed Fighter-Wizards.

I think there are probably more people that have played a Fighter beyond level 9 than there are that have played a Bladesinger-Fighter at any level.

So if we are going by what we are going to see at the table, it isn't going to be lots of Bladesingers.

Below 10 an EK gets very little compared to a bladesinger, valor bard, etc. Their spellcasting is garbage and the full caster fights roughly as well.

Compared to a Fighter; a Bladesinger's melee capability is garbage unless they are using lots of their spells to make it good. They do not fight nearly as well in the 2024 rules if you are just looking at class and subclass mechanics.

 

[Zardnaar]

A PC with a 1-level dip in fighter is a fighter.

If your argument is a multiclass character can outperform a single class character at a certain specific predefined level or level range - I agree this is almost always true, but that is different than saying Bladesinger invalidates an Eldritch Knight.



It is a small percentage that play Wizards at all, let alone multiclassed Fighter-Wizards.

I think there are probably more people that have played a Fighter beyond level 9 than there are that have played a Bladesinger-Fighter at any level.

So if we are going by what we are going to see at the table, it isn't going to be lots of Bladesingers.



Compared to a Fighter; a Bladesinger's melee capability is garbage unless they are using lots of their spells to make it good. They do not fight nearly as well in the 2024 rules if you are just looking at class and subclass mechanics.

Unless youre using lots of 5.0 spells and a 5MWD

CME changes the equation later.

 

[ECMO3]

Then you dont have 18 intelligence?

Fighters getting another feat lvl 6. That's 20 strength/dex +feat or a 3 feat combo+20 str/dex lvl 8.

When I play Fighters I almost always play an Eldritch Knight and I usually have an 8 Intelligence on point buy.

A single class Eldritch Knight is never going to be a good caster because they don't have enough spell slots, if I want a casting Gish with a Fighter platform I will multiclass into Sorcerer or Warlock and use my Fighter spell slots to fuel Charisma spells (usually Warlock so I can get Pact of Blade and/or Shillelagh). IME this is better than boosting Intelligence and multiclassing Wizard. Here is one example for a game I will be playing in about 15 minutes:

D&D Beyond Character Sheet

The World's most intelligent Dungeons and Dragons Character Sheet.

www.dndbeyond.com

Note she has Agonizing Green Flame Blade and is a 3rd party Warlock subclass so everything is not on that DNDBEYOND sheet.