D&D 5E (2024) GMs: How long should it usually take to go from level 1 to 4?

[Lanefan]

Goes along with the edition doing away with classes needing different amounts of XP and no level drain to unbalance things.

Still doesn't account for some characters earning more xp through their in-game actions while others earn less, and that also can lead to imbalance after a while.

It also strips out the idea of items or effects granting bonus levels or xp (e.g. Deck cards, some of the major magic tomes, some effects built into published modules, wish effects, etc.) and that's just boring.

 

[Lanefan]

But by the same token... if the DM is using story milestones rather than XP... players still get a "progress bar" of sorts because they know what their quest is that they are on and can usually determine just how far along they are in getting closer to the end of it. And depending on the import of said quest... they will get an idea of whether the quest would be a "story" in and of itself, or whether it is just one part of a larger plotline (and one more likely to be considered a milestone.) So players in a milestone game do not have as precise a measurement as those who play under XP (your point being a good one), but they also aren't completely in the dark about it either. They also can see their actions bringing them closer to leveling up. "Finish the job, gain a level" as it were.

Which completely discourages them from doing anything other than the mission given to them, becuase that's where the milestone is, even if it's something that doesn't capture their interest (either in-game or at-table).

Fine for AP play, not so fine for anything remotely sandbox.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Which completely discourages them from doing anything other than the mission given to them, becuase that's where the milestone is, even if it's something that doesn't capture their interest (either in-game or at-table).

Fine for AP play, not so fine for anything remotely sandbox.

That's really how you think milestone leveling works and how DMs who use it run their games? Interesting.

 

[Ashrym]

Level 2 -- 1 session
Level 3 -- 1 session
Level 4 -- 1 to 2 sessions
Level 5 -- 1 to 3 sessions

The first tier of play goes fast establishing the character. The second tier is where I believe play essentially begins with that established character and where DM's should be establishing how fast the want to progress advancement.

 

[Lanefan]

That's really how you think milestone leveling works and how DMs who use it run their games? Interesting.

There's been a few adventure modules I've read (and at least one that I've converted and run) that expressly tell the DM to level up the characters when they reach a certain point. If one goes strictly by the book, that means if for some reason the PCs never reach that point - even if they do loads of other stuff - they don't bump. That's why they call it "milestone" levelling.

So yes, on that basis I think that's how it works...and one of numerous reasons why I think milestone or story-based is a terrible way to advance characters.

 

[Zardnaar]

There's been a few adventure modules I've read (and at least one that I've converted and run) that expressly tell the DM to level up the characters when they reach a certain point. If one goes strictly by the book, that means if for some reason the PCs never reach that point - even if they do loads of other stuff - they don't bump. That's why they call it "milestone" levelling.

So yes, on that basis I think that's how it works...and one of numerous reasons why I think milestone or story-based is a terrible way to advance characters.

As long as DMs smart enough to level them up when its appropriate.

Ive run pure sandbox using short adventures from the starter sets, Golden Vault or Candlekeep. Complete 2 in any order level up.

Generally every 2-4 sessions.

 

[payn]

Which completely discourages them from doing anything other than the mission given to them, becuase that's where the milestone is, even if it's something that doesn't capture their interest (either in-game or at-table).

Fine for AP play, not so fine for anything remotely sandbox.

I beg to differ. I have been running Traveller sand boxes for a couple decades and the system has no XP at all. The trick to worrying about only the mission being interesting is actually being interested in the adventure in the first place. I fully understand for some players they just want an avatar to move around and do things, but others expect a bit more out of their game. A good meta-goal goes a long way towards keeping a sandbox productive as most things, even those not mission related, can be used to move the game along.

 

[guachi]

I started a game just about 5 months ago. We started at lvl 0 and I ran a modified N4 Treasure Hunt. In any case, the PCS have just made it to level 4. I think we've done 15 sessions in the last 5 months. Sessions are 4 hours at maximum but the usual playing time average is more like 3 hours for various reasons.

I track XP and I tell the players what they got XP for doing and how much it was. Using XP is just milestone in miniature. Everything the players succeed (or fail) at advances the story or the characters in some way or another.

I'd hate D&D if we leveled up every session or two.

 

[guachi]

We played some 1E adventures somewhat recently.

The book keeping was a big turn off. Amount of loot was insane.

Still has fun until level 6 or 7.

I find 5e bookkeeping far worse. Every class has a million skills and abilities that work on varying amounts (proficiency bonus, ability bonus, something else) times per short/long rest. It's an absolute mess to keep track of. XP is quaint and easy by comparison.

 

[Audiomancer]

Wait… you guys are letting PCs live long enough to reach level 4?!