D&D 5E (2024) Thoughts on New Bladesinger?

[FrogReaver]

One problem with Eldritch Knight, both in D&D 2014 and D&D 2024, is that they have to use a regular arcane focus. Their bonded weapon should be an arcane focus. Otherwise, you get item-in-hand shuffling silliness to use the arcane focus, e.g., holding two-handed weapon in one hand while using the arcane focus which is say hanging on a chain around your neck, then releasing the arcane focus to hold the weapon two-handed again on the same turn (seems potentially dodgy, as more than one free object interaction on a turn). Many groups will probably ignore this limitation, as it is silly in my opinion.

Component pouch + greatsword solves this, no?

 

[Zardnaar]

One problem with Eldritch Knight, both in D&D 2014 and D&D 2024, is that they have to use a regular arcane focus. Their bonded weapon should be an arcane focus. Otherwise, you get item-in-hand shuffling silliness to use the arcane focus, e.g., holding two-handed weapon in one hand while using the arcane focus which is say hanging on a chain around your neck, then releasing the arcane focus to hold the weapon two-handed again on the same turn (seems potentially dodgy, as more than one free object interaction on a turn). Many groups will probably ignore this limitation, as it is silly in my opinion.

Same problem dual wielding bladesinger?

I basically ignore it on appropriate subclasses. Valor Vards, Bladesinger, EKs. Bladelocks

 

[Kurotowa]

One problem with Eldritch Knight, both in D&D 2014 and D&D 2024, is that they have to use a regular arcane focus. Their bonded weapon should be an arcane focus. Otherwise, you get item-in-hand shuffling silliness to use the arcane focus, e.g., holding two-handed weapon in one hand while using the arcane focus which is say hanging on a chain around your neck, then releasing the arcane focus to hold the weapon two-handed again on the same turn (seems potentially dodgy, as more than one free object interaction on a turn). Many groups will probably ignore this limitation, as it is silly in my opinion.

Let's remember: Unless you're an Artificer, a Focus is optional. It substitutes for Material components. No M component to the spell, no Focus required. Or just, you know, use the M component from a traditional Component Pouch. All that requires is a temporarily free hand, which is no issue if you're using a two-handed weapon.

The bigger issue, in my mind, is that if you want an EK who goes sword & board or two-weapon style, War Caster is mandatory to get around the Somatic component issue. There's no other way to be casting without a free hand. Well, I guess Thri-kreen also works. But that's a pretty specific case.

 

[Tessarael]

To make your weapon a focus, you want Ruby of the Warmage, which is a common magic item in D&D 2024, so it should be accessible and cheap at low levels. The hassle is that it costs an attunement slot.

 

[Tessarael]

Same problem dual wielding bladesinger?

I basically ignore it on appropriate subclasses. Valor Vards, Bladesinger, EKs. Bladelocks

Bladesinger doesn't have the same problem as Eldritch Knight, because of this for Bladesinger, "You gain proficiency with all Melee Martial weapons that don't have the Two-Handed or Heavy property. You can use a melee weapon with which you have proficiency as a spell casting focus for your Wizard spells."

 

[Tessarael]

Component pouch + greatsword solves this, no?

Using material components is the same issue as using an arcane focus. You need a free hand temporarily. The exception to this is if you're using something like a quarterstaff both as your weapon and as your arcane focus.

As a DM, I would permit a rod to be used as both a focus and as a weapon (same statistics as a Club), if designed properly to fulfill both roles; similarly for a scepter (use Mace statistics); club, sickle, or great-club for Druid; sling-staff as an alternative to staff too. That's because I think this limitation is overly restrictive and unnecessary, not something that I want to micromanage as a DM.

 

[Zardnaar]

Bladesinger doesn't have the same problem as Eldritch Knight, because of this for Bladesinger, "You gain proficiency with all Melee Martial weapons that don't have the Two-Handed or Heavy property. You can use a melee weapon with which you have proficiency as a spell casting focus for your Wizard spells."

Derp RAW i think thats why my EK concept used a staff as weapon.

 

[ECMO3]

CME has a 10 minute duration iirc.

I've seen plenty of spirit guardians roll over.

Depends on how you play. Decent in a dungeon not so great elsewhere.

It depends on how you play, but also on the situation. A high level fighter is a force to be reconned with and a fighter losing an action is a big deal.

I'm not saying it is bad, I am just saying you can't say that because a Bladesinger can use CME, that doesn't automatically means they are better than a Fighter in melee.

 

[ECMO3]

Sure. But when are you taking that. Anytime before level 7 and you've delayed your extra attack.

Anytime after and you are delaying super valuable higher level spell slots.


I'm fine with that assumption. It's even easier to balance out pre-level 11 than post level 11.


I'm sticking to the bladesinger comparison and it's just not true. Like even in a single encounter 4 round day it's going to go something like this.

Comparison

Level 7 Bladesinger (precasted mage armor/and a level 3 false life)

1. Turn 1: Bonus Action Blade Song. Action Cast Conjure Minor Elemental. Reaction Shield Spell.
2. Turn 2: Attack action for ~23.7 DPR. Reaction Shield Spell.
3. Turn 3: Attack action for ~23.7 DPR. Reaction Shield Spell.
4. Turn 4: Attack action for ~23.7 DPR. Reaction Shield Spell.

HP: ~63 (including temp hp, +3 con)
AC: ~24 (with shield spell, mage armor and +2 dex, +4 int)
Damage: ~71.1

Level 7 EK (precasted level 2 false life)

1. Turn 1: Bonus Action Magic Weapon. Attack action (Greatsword, Graze Mastery, GWM and +2 Str). Action Surge Attack Action. ~49.6 DPR. Reaction Shield Spell.
2. Turn 2: Attack action for ~24.8 DPR. Bonus Action Second Wind. Reaction Shield Spell.
3. Turn 3: Attack action for ~24.8 DPR. Bonus Action Second Wind. Reaction Shield Spell.
4. Turn 4: Attack action for ~24.8 DPR. Reaction Shield Spell.

HP: ~95 (including temp hp and 2 Second wind uses, +3 con)
AC: ~24 (with shield spell, full plate, defensive fighting style)
Damage: ~124

Conclusion

For this short adventuring day (a context we usually consider full casters being better for)
The EK does ~74% more damage and has ~51% more hp.

That is a bit off though. First a Bladesinger is typically going to have a 16 dexterity to start, that is way more benificial than Constitution. The EK has 6 spell slots (4x1+2x2). If you compare this to a Baldesinger, the Bladesinger has 11 slots.

If you want to zero baseline it and assume both players use shield 6 times, the Bladesinger is left with one 2nd, three 3rd and one Fourth. If you translate all of those into False Life that is 60.5 temp hit points on average. If you translate all except the 4th level slot it is 43.5. And this is before Arcane Recovery, which adds another 3 slots (effectively 32.5 more hps)

That is going to be more total hp than the EK has.

Second, the damage is off. As an optimzation baseline, the Bladesinger at 7th level with a blade cantrip should do 3d8+8=21.5 before any CME damage (and before we look at dual wielding). If you are using CME you will likely dual wield and then it would be 3d6+1d8+8+6d8CME or 51DPR.

 

[ECMO3]

Same problem dual wielding bladesinger?

A Bladesinger can use a weapon as a focus.