D&D 5E (2024) Thoughts on New Bladesinger?

[Tessarael]

That depends on if the DM allows you to buy magic items and if so, how they are determined to be for sale.

Agreed, but it is intended to be a common magic item. Highly DM dependent as you commented, as I doubt most published modules have Ruby of the Warmage as loot. One of the issues with D&D having such a variety of magic items is that you're also not that likely to have it rolled as random treasure either.

On a related note, Hat of Wizardry is another common D&D 2024 magic item that can be used as a spell casting focus by a Wizard that attunes it.

 

[Tessarael]

Booming blade lasts for the entire round. It would still be on when you Action Surge.

The only thing that lasts for the round for Booming Blade is the additional thunder damage if the target moves before your next turn. The extra damage on Booming Blade to an attack applies only to the melee attack made as part of casting the spell, "You brandish the weapon used in the spell's casting and make a melee attack with it against one creature within 5 feet of you ... At 5th level, the melee attack deals an extra 1d8 thunder damage to the target on a hit, and the damage the target takes for moving increases to 2d8."
It does not provide any additional benefits with Action Surge, as D&D 2024 Action Surge doesn't permit you to take the Magic Action again to cast Booming Blade again. D&D 2014 Action Surge would permit you to cast Booming Blade twice in a round for the additional damage again.

Now if you have an opportunity attack after your turn, e.g., from an opponent leaving your reach without Disengage, then you could cast Booming Blade again, if you have the War Caster feat to permit you to do so.

 

[ECMO3]

It does not provide any additional benefits with Action Surge, as D&D 2024 Action Surge doesn't permit you to take the Magic Action again to cast Booming Blade again. D&D 2014 Action Surge would permit you to cast Booming Blade twice in a round for the additional damage again.

A 6th level Bladesinger, 6th level Valor Bard or a 7th level Eldritch Knight can cast Booming Blade using the Attack action. So it works with Action Surge if you have one of those three subclasses (assuming you got it from somewhere else on the Bard).

 

[Tessarael]

A 6th level Bladesinger, 6th level Valor Bard or a 7th level Eldritch Knight can cast Booming Blade using the Attack action. So it works with action Surge if you have one of those three subclasses (assuming you got it from somewhere else on the Bard).

That doesn't override the D&D 2024 wording on Action Surge not being usable for a Magic Action, though I see it being argued otherwise.

 

[Zardnaar]

A 6th level Bladesinger, 6th level Valor Bard or a 7th level Eldritch Knight can cast Booming Blade using the Attack action. So it works with Action Surge if you have one of those three subclasses (assuming you got it from somewhere else on the Bard).

Yup its how you can cast 6 spells a round.

 

[ECMO3]

That doesn't override the D&D 2024 wording on Action Surge not being usable for a Magic Action, though I see it being argued otherwise.

You don't use the Magic action at all. With those subclasses, you use the attack action and their subclass specific version of Extra Attack.

Action Surge does not prevent you from casting spells, it just prevents you from using the Magic action.

Action Surge:
"On your turn, you can take one additional action, except the Magic action."

Eldritch Knight Warmagic feature:
"When you take the Attack action on your turn, you can replace one of the attacks with a casting of one of your Wizard cantrips that has a casting time of an action."

 

[Zardnaar]

You don't use the Magic action at all. With those subclasses, you use the attack action and their subclass specific version of Extra Attack.

Action Surge does not prevent you from casting spells, it just prevents you from using the Magic action.

Action Surge:
"On your turn, you can take one additional action, except the Magic action."

Eldritch Knight Warmagic feature:
"When you take the Attack action on your turn, you can replace one of the attacks with a casting of one of your Wizard cantrips that has a casting time of an action."

This. I had to reread it a few times.

Ek 7, BS6 looks interesting. You miss out on third attack though so its not a strict upgrade.

 

[FrogReaver]

Well you are purposely choosing a mechanically poor choice for the Bladesinger. I think that is disengenuous.

A background for +2 int, +1 con, magic initiate is not a poor choice for a bladesinger. It's one of the best. We can quibble over whether it's the absolute best or not, but it's one of the best.

Criminal gives all 3: Intelligence, Dexterity and Constitution, as well as a better Origin Feat than Sage.

I'd vote magic initiate as being better.

If your argument is that a Bladesinger who makes bad choices is bad at melee I would gladly agree with you.

None of my choices were bad.

That is why you cast false out of combat using a high level slot. Playing a 7th level Bladesinger you wake up in the morning and cast a 4th level Flase life (with the new FR spells I would actually use a 3rd level slot instead, I would not use a 4th level spell for that in a modern Bladesinger, I would keep it for Backlash).

And I assumed a single cast of false life for my single encounter 4 round adventuring day. A level 3 slot since you don't have an extra 4th till you short rest.

You don't generally cast False Life at all in combat, if you are getting damaged you would cast Arcane Vigor, which is a bonus action, or Armor of Agathys if you have it from Runecarver which is also now a bonus action. At high levels it is Contingency that is recasting False Life, with no action at all.

We are and have been talking about a level 7 bladesinger, so i'm going to stick to that.

Arcane Vigor is a good call out. I'm surprised you are just now bringing it up. That's one I can easily add into the rotation.

But you are entering the fight with more total hit points than the fighter and taking less damage at most levels. You are taking a lot less damage at high levels.

This wasn't true. The Fighter also can cast False life in a level 2 slot and has an hp lead due to d10 vs d6 hp.

When is the Eldrictch Knight casting those 6 spells he has?

I labeled them. 4x shield. 1x magic weapon. 1x False life (level 2).

There are a lot of variables, but I have played multiple Bladesingers to level 20, 1 Eldritch Knight to level 20 and several Eldritch Knights at lower levels.

Level 20 is not level 7.

Yes there is and it is even more so when you consider getting into melee.

The Bladesinger is faster and has spells to get him there, to include Bonus action spells like Misty Step. They can fly to engage a flying enemy in melee and can do it with a bonus action at high levels.

If you wanted to claim the Bladesinger does way less damage but is more survivable and mobile at level 7, i think in many adventuring days, that will hold. Probably not my 4 round adventuring day comparison, but in many others.

 

[mellored]

This. I had to reread it a few times.

Ek 7, BS6 looks interesting. You miss out on third attack though so its not a strict upgrade.

I'd go with Valor 6, BS 6 instead.
More spell slots.

And if you hit Valor 10, you can add Smites for serious damage.

 

[FrogReaver]

Sure. But when are you taking that. Anytime before level 7 and you've delayed your extra attack.

Anytime after and you are delaying super valuable higher level spell slots.


I'm fine with that assumption. It's even easier to balance out pre-level 11 than post level 11.


I'm sticking to the bladesinger comparison and it's just not true. Like even in a single encounter 4 round day it's going to go something like this.

Comparison

Level 7 Bladesinger (precasted mage armor/and a level 3 false life)

1. Turn 1: Bonus Action Blade Song. Action Cast Conjure Minor Elemental. Reaction Shield Spell.
2. Turn 2: Attack action for ~23.7 DPR. Reaction Shield Spell.
3. Turn 3: Attack action for ~23.7 DPR. Reaction Shield Spell.
4. Turn 4: Attack action for ~23.7 DPR. Reaction Shield Spell.

HP: ~63 (including temp hp, +3 con)
AC: ~24 (with shield spell, mage armor and +2 dex, +4 int)
Damage: ~71.1

Level 7 EK (precasted level 2 false life)

1. Turn 1: Bonus Action Magic Weapon. Attack action (Greatsword, Graze Mastery, GWM and +2 Str). Action Surge Attack Action. ~49.6 DPR. Reaction Shield Spell.
2. Turn 2: Attack action for ~24.8 DPR. Bonus Action Second Wind. Reaction Shield Spell.
3. Turn 3: Attack action for ~24.8 DPR. Bonus Action Second Wind. Reaction Shield Spell.
4. Turn 4: Attack action for ~24.8 DPR. Reaction Shield Spell.

HP: ~95 (including temp hp and 2 Second wind uses, +3 con)
AC: ~24 (with shield spell, full plate, defensive fighting style)
Damage: ~124

Conclusion

For this short adventuring day (a context we usually consider full casters being better for)
The EK does ~74% more damage and has ~51% more hp.

Updating Bladesinger numbers to include Arcane Vigor

1. Turn 1: Bonus Action Blade Song. Action Cast Conjure Minor Elemental. Reaction Shield Spell.
2. Turn 2: Attack action for ~23.7 DPR. Reaction Shield Spell. Bonus Action Arcane Vigor.
3. Turn 3: Attack action for ~23.7 DPR. Reaction Shield Spell. Bonus Action Arcane Vigor.
4. Turn 4: Attack action for ~23.7 DPR. Reaction Shield Spell. Bonus Action Arcane Vigor.

You have 7 hit dice and Arcane Vigor can allow you to use all of them in the 4 round combat.

That equates to 7d6+18 = 42.5 extra hp.

HP ~105.5
AC: ~24 (with shield spell, mage armor and +2 dex, +4 int)
Damage: ~71.1

That's now 11% more hp than the EK. Still much less damage.

Slots expended.
5 level 1 (Only has 4 so 1 of these likely required a level 2 slot)
3 level 3
1 level 2
1 level 4

Remaining slots 1 level 2 and Arcane Recovery