D&D 5E (2024) Ditching the Treasure Treadmill

[MGibster]

I'm currently at the tail end of a Greyhawk campaign I've been running for a year. As commonly happens, we reached a point many levels ago where gold ceased to have any meaning. The player characters couldn't purchase better equipment, finer food, or a nicer home, so treasure was essentially meaningless. At least mundane treasure like gold, gems, and pieces of art. They still like magic items of course. Treasure has been the norm for my D&D games my entire life. You go on adventures, gain more treasure, purchase better equipment, so you can go on more adventures, to gain more treasure, purchase even better equipment, and go on more adventures. Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

We jumped off the treadmill and it hasn't had a negative impact on the game from what I can see. I don't miss trying to figure out how much treasure the bad guys have and my players don't miss keeping track of the gold they loot. Getting off the treasure treadmill after being on it for 30+ years has been great.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

For our Radiant Citadel campaign, we're just using the starting gear by level guide int he 2024 PHB, with the idea that the PCs are gaining the money and occasional magic items off-screen between levels, which gives everyone agency over their guaranteed magic items. (The minor stuff they might pick up during actual games are just nice bonuses.) It's been refreshing for me, since it's the one 5E campaign I run where I'm not worrying that I'm short-changing the PCs.

 

[Bill Zebub]

I'd like to play in a system where, basically, "level" = "fame". (Which has interesting philosophical implications for whether the stories being told are actually true in the sense that your character is doing them, or if you are really just generating increasingly unlikely legends...)

In the game I envision, you gain "XP" not by killing things and achieving objectives, but by coming home and bragging about your feats, hosting extravagant feasts, giving gifts, and paying bards to sing about you. All of which consumes a lot of treasure.

Basically Beowulf.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I'd like to play in a system where, basically, "level" = "fame". (Which has interesting philosophical implications for whether the stories being told are actually true in the sense that your character is doing them, or if you are really just generating increasingly unlikely legends...)

In the game I envision, you gain "XP" not by killing things and achieving objectives, but by coming home and bragging about your feats, hosting extravagant feasts, giving gifts, and paying bards to sing about you. All of which consumes a lot of treasure.

Basically Beowulf.

That feels like a modified carousing table. My players love leaving the dungeon to party in town afterwards, both for the XP but also for the shenanigans the table describes.

 

[Pamphylian]

As commonly happens, we reached a point many levels ago where gold ceased to have any meaning. The player characters couldn't purchase better equipment, finer food, or a nicer home, so treasure was essentially meaningless.

This is something I (aspire to) solve in the opposite way. I want to give treasure more meaning by providing increasingly impactful things to spend money on. I want PCs spending boatloads on ships, strongholds, magical research, powerful spell casting, crafting items, sage advice, hirelings and armies, living lavishly, bribing politicians, establishing shrines and temples, and in general doing a number on the world. 5e out of the box definitely needs some number tweaking (or some number adding) to make this work, but I can't help but think that this is possible to do well.

 

[Zardnaar]

When gold doesn't mean xp or buying items yeah its a bit pointless.

Smaller amounts vs AD&D I've started selling curated lists of magic items.

 

[DrJawaPhD]

We jumped off the treadmill and it hasn't had a negative impact on the game from what I can see. I don't miss trying to figure out how much treasure the bad guys have and my players don't miss keeping track of the gold they loot. Getting off the treasure treadmill after being on it for 30+ years has been great.

What does "off the treasure treadmill" mean? I'm envisioning you mean there is no money, no purchases, no magic items - just focus on adventuring for the sake of the story with base equipment? I'm sure that would still work pretty well but I'd definitely miss having magic items.

 

[Maxperson]

I just give smaller amounts of gems, gold, etc. so that it doesn't cease to have meaning, while still allowing players the fun of finding treasure.

 

[MGibster]

This is something I (aspire to) solve in the opposite way. I want to give treasure more meaning by providing increasingly impactful things to spend money on. I want PCs spending boatloads on ships, strongholds, magical research, powerful spell casting, crafting items, sage advice, hirelings and armies, living lavishly, bribing politicians, establishing shrines and temples, and in general doing a number on the world.

This is where we have philosophical difference. For me, D&D is a game of high adventure. We're kicking down doors, fighting vicious beasts, battling evil wizards, winning the <ahem> "hearts" of beautiful NPCs, plundering the treasures of lost civilizations, etc., etc. We're not poring over ledgers managing estates, handling payroll for our staff, engaging in tedious research, etc., etc. We might establish shrines and temples, bribe politicians, and certainly live large, but these things are accomplished by adventuring.

 

[MGibster]

What does "off the treasure treadmill" mean? I'm envisioning you mean there is no money, no purchases, no magic items - just focus on adventuring for the sake of the story with base equipment? I'm sure that would still work pretty well but I'd definitely miss having magic items.

D&D was built with the treadmill as a core element of play. PCs go on adventures to gain experience and treasure, allowing them to become more powerful, which allows them to go on more difficult adventures, gaining more experience and treasure, and so on, and so forth. It's worked for World of Warcraft for more than 20 years now, so I'm not saying it's a bad design, but the treadmill as originally envisioned is no longer necessary.

In the past, gold continued to be useful as you leveled because you needed it to pay for the training necessary to level up. i.e. Your character might have the experience points, but if they lacked the funds to level up they weren't going anywhere. The gold sink that was training was removed from the game a long, long time ago, but the treadmill persists. PCs continue to go on adventures and they accumulate gold, but after a few levels, there's no much to spend gold on. Nothing that has a meaningful impact on the core game play which is adventuring.

So for my Greyhawk campaign, I just told the PCs they essentially have enough gold to buy any mundane equipment they want. You need a horse? Okay. You want to stay in the finest inn in all of Greyhawk? Yeah, you're level 8, you're practically made of gold at this point. Magic items aren't purchased in this campaign, but they find them while adventuring.