D&D 5E (2024) What's New with the Artificer in Eberron: Forge of the Artificer

[Mephista]

Yeah, and that feature has been nerfed down to one extra plan that must be armor-related instead of the 2024 version which gave you two extra infusions and let you count each part of your armor separately (body, head, boots, gauntlets).

I think it’s a deliberate change that implies you can’t just replace the gauntlets with magic ones.

Armor-related is slightly better at first blush, because that includes shields now, which is ironic, considering that a shield is the one thing not attached to your armor chasis, so you're not upgrading it directly.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Then isn't it better to get at level 3 than kevel 10?

Sure, but it is one type of item (eg Artillerist gets wands. That is it. Not even wands, rods, staves, and martial ranged weapons, just wands) where the old version was all items. That is a huge move away from being defined by crafting.

I was born with brain damage (Toxoplasmosis), didn't talk at all till I was 5, and failed English class several years.

If you start with 5 charisma, even if you take proficiency in persuasion, that just gets you to where everyone else starts.

Well damn. fair enough. I will endeavor to be more patient and give you benefit of the doubt on your intended tone.

 

[mellored]

Sure, but it is one type of item (eg Artillerist gets wands. That is it. Not even wands, rods, staves, and martial ranged weapons, just wands) where the old version was all items. That is a huge move away from being defined by crafting.

One type, but no limit on rarity.

You lose the bonus for Alchemist Jug, but gain it on Wand of Polymorph. Which is more powerful.

Or another way to look at it.
You need to craft 25 uncommon items under the old rules to save the same amount of time as crafting 1 legendary item under the new rules.

And it's 7 levels earlier.

So it still looks like a buff to me.

Hopefully that wasn't offensive.

 

[Mephista]

I’m not convinced these are comparable. Nothing in the Demon Armor says the claws count as their own simple weapon, which is specifically called out in the Armorer. And while the Armorer description mentions the weapons as part of the armor, it still calls them weapons. I don’t see how this disqualifies them from being able to be replicated, especially since they can be enhanced with spells that interact with weapons like the Magic Weapon spell.

I also do not believe that the removal of the 2014 level 9 feature excludes them from being able to be replicated. It can be read as being an option removed because the base class feature already covers the ability to enhance them. Even the 2024 level 9 feature could stack with the replicated item.

Again, I’m not really arguing if this is RAI. I just don’t see anything in the written rules to say it is against RAW.

The dreadnaught projects an arcane wrecking ball or sledgehammer that deals Force damage- emphasis mine. This reads that the weapon the dreadnaught uses is an energy construct, not a physical item.

Guardian? "You can discharge concussive blasts with strikes from your armor. The pulse counts as a Simple Melee weapon..." Your simple weapon isn't even your armor. Its an energy blast.

Infiltrators have a gemstone that shoots bolts of lightning. Despite the rules treating it as a simple weapon, its actually closer to a magic wand than a physical weapon you can enchant with magic.

I suppose that I should have compared the Armorer to the Rogue Soul Knife instead. Everything in the new Armorer is an energy construct or blast of some kind. They are not physical items that you can enchant. I think its pretty clear that there's nothing you can, or are supposed to, replicate, because you can't really replicate pure energy. The intent seems pretty straight forwards to me; these can't be magical items, because they're not physical items in the first place.

And, upon further investigation, I think I was wrong about the Magic Weapon applicability here too. I forgot that the spell doesn't work on magic items, and since you create the armor with a Magic Action, this counts.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

One type, but no limit on rarity.

You lose the bonus for Alchemist Jug, but gain it on Wand of Polymorph. Which is more powerful.

Or another way to look at it.
You need to craft 25 uncommon items under the old rules to save the same amount of time as crafting 1 legendary item under the new rules.

And it's 7 levels earlier.

So it still looks like a buff to me.

Hopefully that wasn't offensive.

Good points. I get why some folks are happy with it.

But for me, it feels off to have artificers not craft better with any tool theyre proficient with.

For me, i would have a small benefit with all proficient crafting at level 1, get better at level 10, and get a specific tool buff from subclass at level 3.

So, the biggest things for me are the switch from actual unqiue items to cantrips and mundane gear (why not both? The magic trinkets work different from the cantrips they mimic*) and the loss of ignoring attunement requirements**.

* a prestigidigitation effect doesmt last indefinitely unless you end or replace it, and cannot be sent in a package to a far off place, for instance

** Mostly an issue when using supplements from before 2024. My wife's artificer has a magic wizard tome that fwe update RAW she cant use anymore.

 

[Misanthrope Prime]

The dreadnaught projects an arcane wrecking ball or sledgehammer that deals Force damage- emphasis mine. This reads that the weapon the dreadnaught uses is an energy construct, not a physical item.

Guardian? "You can discharge concussive blasts with strikes from your armor. The pulse counts as a Simple Melee weapon..." Your simple weapon isn't even your armor. Its an energy blast.

Infiltrators have a gemstone that shoots bolts of lightning. Despite the rules treating it as a simple weapon, its actually closer to a magic wand than a physical weapon you can enchant with magic.

I suppose that I should have compared the Armorer to the Rogue Soul Knife instead. Everything in the new Armorer is an energy construct or blast of some kind. They are not physical items that you can enchant. I think its pretty clear that there's nothing you can, or are supposed to, replicate, because you can't really replicate pure energy. The intent seems pretty straight forwards to me; these can't be magical items, because they're not physical items in the first place.

And, upon further investigation, I think I was wrong about the Magic Weapon applicability here too. I forgot that the spell doesn't work on magic items, and since you create the armor with a Magic Action, this counts.

If the rules say it's a simple weapon, then the rules treat it as a weapon. If the rules do not state that it is a magic weapon, then the rules treat it as a mundane weapon.

I don't have the new book in front of me, but is there anything specifying that the pulse, beam or wrecking ball ceases to exist when not "projected" or "discharged"? If not, I see now RAW reason why they cannot be enchanted or infused; and even if they are said to only appear and disappear instantaneously, you can always get around that by going to the astral plane or using some other kind of time magic.

 

[Mephista]

If the rules say it's a simple weapon, then the rules treat it as a weapon. If the rules do not state that it is a magic weapon, then the rules treat it as a mundane weapon.

Its created by the Magic Action. Therefore, its magical by default. That's what the Magic Action does - signify magic is going on.

I don't have the new book in front of me, but is there anything specifying that the pulse, beam wrecking ball ceases to exist when not "projected" or "discharged"? If not, I see now RAW reason why they cannot be enchanted or infused; and even if they are said to only appear and disappear instantaneously, you can always get around that by going to the astral plane or using some other kind of time magic.

Okay, this is a rather extreme rules lawyering here. I cannot take an argument that vibration energy from a concussive blast somehow can be treated as a physical object that can be enchanted in good faith. Words mean things.

 

[Zardnaar]

So if you want to play an artificer a DM can give them a better magic weapon or item perhaps?

 

[Misanthrope Prime]

Its created by the Magic Action. Therefore, its magical by default. That's what the Magic Action does - signify magic is going on.

If I am not incorrect, the first level feature of the artificer allows you to make nonmagical equipment with a magic action. If you use tinker's magic, as a magic action, to create a net or a bunch of ball bearings, where does the rules say those are necessarily magical?

Okay, this is a rather extreme rules lawyering here. I cannot take an argument that vibration energy from a concussive blast somehow can be treated as a physical object that can be enchanted in good faith. Words mean things.

It's only rules lawyering if you're not familiar with formal logic or syllogisms. I'm actually not entirely sure if the rules state that a weapon must be a physical object, or that you must have a physical object in order to enchant or infuse something.

EDIT: The rules state that "a weapon" is "an object that is in the Simple or Martial weapon category." So let me give you an example of a syllogism.

An armor flail is a simple melee weapon.
All simple melee weapons are objects.
∴
An armor flail is an object.