D&D 5E (2024) What's New with the Artificer in Eberron: Forge of the Artificer

[WanderingMystic]

I mean, they're probably not as good as Battlemaster or Artilerist, but I'd definitely put them above Cartographer!

The Forge Adept is decidedly worse than the Battle Smith, Artillerist, or the Armorer in combat and honestly, I would still take the Alchemist or Cartographer due to their utility. The Mavrick is even worse it focuses on improving your spell list but until 15th level you don't really get anything.

In that book their is however a great monk subclass focusing on enhancing shifter, warforged, changling or kalashtar albitites in melee combat.

In Dread Metrol you have a class that is very similar to the Armorer but no ability to choose between forms. You replace parts of you with artificed versions, gaining the ability to use heavy armor as well as a 1d10 int keyed enhanced arm. Two attacks at level 5, then an extra infusion slot at 9th along with your arm counting as a shield and your weapon bumping up to 2d10
Your weapons however deal a good deal more damage at 9th level. Finally you become a construct at 15th. great class.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

The Alchemist is not bad by any means.
They can entirely focus on int with true strike or cantrips doing fire or Acid damage. Acid splash is an area spell. Adding int bonus to it is great. Poison spray and fire blast have high damage dice. Adding int bonus to the damage helps preventing dealing neglegible damage at times.
Flaming sphere. Nice extra damage with a bonus action. The initial cast deals extra damage. Keeping concentration is not that hard for artificers in general.

Homunculus is doing things without any action needed by the alchemist.

That all adds up.

But this is not the main thing alchemists do. They cam freely give away most of their created magic items. They could keep the mind sharpener or the wand of the war mage if noone else is in greater need though.

Their potions are good buffs no matter what they roll. They are concentrationless and usable as a bonus action from either character.

After level 7, giving a +4 bonus to saves or checks 4 times per day as reaction on their main stat is great. 1st, they don't need to be as close to the receipient as the paladin, their bonus is higher because paladins usually don't have charisma as their highest stat.
And at times addding to checks is helping too.
Their bonus is more reliable than bard dice. And they it is usable as a reaction.

Of course you miss high level spells, but so do paladins and rangers and eldritch knights and arcane tricksters.

 

[Mephista]

The Forge Adept is decidedly worse than the Battle Smith, Artillerist, or the Armorer in combat and honestly, I would still take the Alchemist or Cartographer due to their utility. The Mavrick is even worse it focuses on improving your spell list but until 15th level you don't really get anything.

Maverick is bad overall, yeah. But I was mainly thinking about Forge Adept.

Forge Adept being worse than Battle Smith and Artillerist, I'll give you, but I don't think its by too much. Armorer? Current Armorer is... really, really bad. Level 3 is okay, but every other level is terrible, imho; this is compounded by the crap damage scaling upgrades and the Arcane Armor options all have individual issues. While there were a number of things you could do in 2014 to make Armorer really good and fun, the changes to the base class and the level 9 ability have actually nerfed this option really badly. If you think the Cartographer's utility is worth taking? Then I would suggest Armorer below every other subclass except Maverick.

Alchemist honestly gets a bad rep. People that hate any kind of randomness really have issues with it, but frankly, I found that the potions always have a use, no matter which comes up, and spending a spell slot works just as well if necessary in a pinch. The potion that gives you concentration-less flight is probably the trickiest one to use, and that's saying something when flying is the hardest use case. The potions now scale with level slightly, you get more potions as you level, AND there's the fact that 5e24 potions are a Bonus Action now. And don't get me started on getting Tasha's Cauldron at level 15. That spell is AWESOME. The only real issue I've run into is a need for somehow getting a magical Alchemist Tools for fighting with, and I'm kinda annoyed that you don't get access to Greater Resotration.

Forge adept, on the other hand? You get scaling +x bonuses, which stack on top of things like Flametongue that don't normally have +x scaling. Extra Attack is standard at 5. Level 9 and 15 are direct damage boosters; simple, but that's kinda what you want to see. The subclass is simple, but its damage is decent, and that's what people who want a gish generally are looking for. The subclass does need a few quality of life tweaks, such as the new crafting discount methods and allowing the ghall'shaarat to work as an arcane focus, to bring it in line with the other subclasses.

The main benefit of Forge Adept is that, unlike Armorer or Battle Smith, all of its abilities synergize with the magic weapons you make, rather than against. The only real issue holding it back from matching battlesmith, i think, is that the damage, reaction, and extra HP from the Steel Defender is better than the +X bonus at low levels. At higher levels, I do think it evens out.

 

[GarrettKP]

Current Armorer is... really, really bad. Level 3 is okay, but every other level is terrible, imho; this is compounded by the crap damage scaling upgrades and the Arcane Armor options all have individual issues. While there were a number of things you could do in 2014 to make Armorer really good and fun, the changes to the base class and the level 9 ability have actually nerfed this option really badly. If you think the Cartographer's utility is worth taking? Then I would suggest Armorer below every other subclass except Maverick.

I really don’t understand this sentiment (not coming from you, but the community as a whole). I think the Armorer is probably the second best Artificer Subclass in 2024 still.

My main confusion comes down to how people are treating the level 9 feature. By my read, it basically functions the same as it did previously, but with one of the extra infusions locked to a +1 weapon for your Armorer weapon.

You still get an extra infusion for the Armor, and nothing in the subclass says you can’t wear boots, gloves, or helmets on top of or in addition to the Arcane Armor. The 2024 Arcane Armor doesn’t say the armor covers your entire body anymore, so nothing about the feature suggests you can’t use other items in conjunction with it like any other PC can.

So the 2014 level 9 feature had to specify that you can infuse different parts of the armor because it used to cover every part of you, but that isn’t a thing anymore. So it no longer needs that clarification.

In this case, the only relevant part of the level 9 feature that’s different is that it gave you two extra infusions. Now it only gives one, but it also automatically gives the Weapon a +1, roughly the equivalent of the old Enhanced Weapon infusion. So it still effectively gives you two free infusions, you’re just locked into one of the choices. But you still can get your winged boots or your magic helmet or whatever other items you were using.

So what exactly is the nerf? It seems to me like the only thing is the +1 weapon used to be a +2, which is a nerf but not a huge deal in my eyes.

 

[WanderingMystic]

Maverick is bad overall, yeah. But I was mainly thinking about Forge Adept.

Forge Adept being worse than Battle Smith and Artillerist, I'll give you, but I don't think its by too much. Armorer? Current Armorer is... really, really bad. Level 3 is okay, but every other level is terrible, imho; this is compounded by the crap damage scaling upgrades and the Arcane Armor options all have individual issues. While there were a number of things you could do in 2014 to make Armorer really good and fun, the changes to the base class and the level 9 ability have actually nerfed this option really badly. If you think the Cartographer's utility is worth taking? Then I would suggest Armorer below every other subclass except Maverick.

Alchemist honestly gets a bad rep. People that hate any kind of randomness really have issues with it, but frankly, I found that the potions always have a use, no matter which comes up, and spending a spell slot works just as well if necessary in a pinch. The potion that gives you concentration-less flight is probably the trickiest one to use, and that's saying something when flying is the hardest use case. The potions now scale with level slightly, you get more potions as you level, AND there's the fact that 5e24 potions are a Bonus Action now. And don't get me started on getting Tasha's Cauldron at level 15. That spell is AWESOME. The only real issue I've run into is a need for somehow getting a magical Alchemist Tools for fighting with, and I'm kinda annoyed that you don't get access to Greater Resotration.

Forge adept, on the other hand? You get scaling +x bonuses, which stack on top of things like Flametongue that don't normally have +x scaling. Extra Attack is standard at 5. Level 9 and 15 are direct damage boosters; simple, but that's kinda what you want to see. The subclass is simple, but its damage is decent, and that's what people who want a gish generally are looking for. The subclass does need a few quality of life tweaks, such as the new crafting discount methods and allowing the ghall'shaarat to work as an arcane focus, to bring it in line with the other subclasses.

The main benefit of Forge Adept is that, unlike Armorer or Battle Smith, all of its abilities synergize with the magic weapons you make, rather than against. The only real issue holding it back from matching battlesmith, i think, is that the damage, reaction, and extra HP from the Steel Defender is better than the +X bonus at low levels. At higher levels, I do think it evens out.

So I both misread and misremembered aspects of the Forge Adept which made it look worse in my eyes. 1st I thought the +1 - +3 bonus acted like any other infusion so that it did not work on magic items.
In addition I didn't / don'tike the first part of the lvl 15 ability so I don't think I have ever looked past that to see the flat +1d6. Both of those facts made me regard it as inferior, I think I did the same thing when that book first came out.

So wether or not you can make your special weapon magical is unclear, on top of that they have said that when they release the psion they will be adding magical items for people who have special weapons like the metamorph and the soul blade so regardless eventually you will be able to get a magical item for your special weapon. Also their lvl 9 ability is written so that even if enchanted they will still get the +1 bonus to hit and attack.

The Armorer will have at least +1 ac and I would assume a better con since the battle smith and Forge Adept still needs to get a 14 dex. The armorer can always wield a shield since their special weapon is on handed or no handed. The special weapon gets a type of weapon mastery which the battle smith an Forge Adept doesn't. At level 9 you get a flat +1 to hit and damage so as long as you can get your special weapon enchanted is a nice little extra on top of getting a free extra magical item. Level 15 is where is let's us down. It is still ok not as good as other combat options.

 

[Mephista]

I really don’t understand this sentiment (not coming from you, but the community as a whole). I think the Armorer is probably the second best Artificer Subclass in 2024 still.

My main confusion comes down to how people are treating the level 9 feature. By my read, it basically functions the same as it did previously, but with one of the extra infusions locked to a +1 weapon for your Armorer weapon.

The level 9 feature is part of it for a lot of people, yeah; if your party/bastion buys, makes, or finds their own armors and shields instead of using RMI, then the extra plans do nothing. No one likes having to trade out a very flavorful customization ability for a dead feature. The +1 weapons is better than nothing, but by this point the rest of your party should have a full set of Rare weapons, so +2 at least, while starting to eye Very Rare equipment moving into tier 3. So, it still feels bad, even if you ignore the 2014 ability.

I also said the base class kind of nerfed the subclass, because it now has a focus on using Spell Storing Items and replenishing magic wands via level 6 ability, which is directly at odds with having weapon attacks. Your weapon attacks will only generally deal 1 point more of damage than a basic Magic Missile spell even after Extra Attack at level 5, and general consensus is that you have no real way of upgrading your weapons outside of the subclass features. At this point in time, I was assuming that doing Wand of Magic Missile shinanigans was stronger than your actual subclass features, which made me kind of dismissive of the subclass.

Upon reflection, I realized you can kind of hand off the SSI and wands to your homoculi. So, assuming you can keep it alive, that's actually better damage to do things that way.

Dreadnaught is flat out a trap option - not only is size it not dungeon-friendly, but its pushing is actively worse than a Medium critter using Push Mastery. Even furthermore, one of the benefits of being big in 5e is grappling dragons and giants. Dreadnaught is bad at grappling. Infiltrator is a bit of a misnomer. This option doesn't really give you the ability to infiltrate anywhere; the only sneaky thing Infiltrator gets is the dampening field, which offsets the penalty from Heavy Armor. You -could- go with scale mail instead, and make a stealthy build, but those are all options that other Artificers have, and getting advantage on stealth is really easy for an artificer. Infiltrator actually wants to be a ranged unit in heavy armor, especially since their weapon is lightning - loud and flashy. I won't call it a trap, but its definitely second fiddle.

But guardian does seem to be good, especially after I realized something. Shields. The guardian's attacks basically work when any part of your armor coming into contact with the enemy, so in theory a shoulder check or kick work just as well, so nothing stops you from using two shields, and getting two different defensive bonuses. Though, it should be noted that you're more susceptible to grapples than 2014.

At level 9, you get Hypnotic Pattern and Lightning Bolt, and at level 11 you can put it on a SSI; again I forgot about giving it to the homoculus. Level 13 you get greater invisibility and fire shield for some actual combat buffs that work well with the Armorer. Passwall and Wall of Force round out this at level 17, which... don't seem to vibe with the previous build at all?

The level 15 dreadnaught ability is once again terrible. Larger size increase with no real benefit other than finally pushing Large creatures, and 1.5 average damage increase. Infiltrator gets no actual infiltration powers, but some decent kiting abilities, but its coming online rather late game; nothing amazing. Guardian gets a damage boost and a very good reaction ability that synergizes well with its level 3 one.

So, overall I do think I'm slightly mistaken about Armorer, but only if we're talking Guardian. The other parts are bad, and that creates a rather negative impression of the entire subclass.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

The level 9 feature is part of it for a lot of people, yeah; if your party/bastion buys, makes, or finds their own armors and shields instead of using RMI, then the extra plans do nothing. No one likes having to trade out a very flavorful customization ability for a dead feature. The +1 weapons is better than nothing, but by this point the rest of your party should have a full set of Rare weapons, so +2 at least, while starting to eye Very Rare equipment moving into tier 3. So, it still feels bad, even if you ignore the 2014 ability.

I also said the base class kind of nerfed the subclass, because it now has a focus on using Spell Storing Items and replenishing magic wands via level 6 ability, which is directly at odds with having weapon attacks. Your weapon attacks will only generally deal 1 point more of damage than a basic Magic Missile spell even after Extra Attack at level 5, and general consensus is that you have no real way of upgrading your weapons outside of the subclass features. At this point in time, I was assuming that doing Wand of Magic Missile shinanigans was stronger than your actual subclass features, which made me kind of dismissive of the subclass.

Upon reflection, I realized you can kind of hand off the SSI and wands to your homoculi. So, assuming you can keep it alive, that's actually better damage to do things that way.

Dreadnaught is flat out a trap option - not only is size it not dungeon-friendly, but its pushing is actively worse than a Medium critter using Push Mastery. Even furthermore, one of the benefits of being big in 5e is grappling dragons and giants. Dreadnaught is bad at grappling. Infiltrator is a bit of a misnomer. This option doesn't really give you the ability to infiltrate anywhere; the only sneaky thing Infiltrator gets is the dampening field, which offsets the penalty from Heavy Armor. You -could- go with scale mail instead, and make a stealthy build, but those are all options that other Artificers have, and getting advantage on stealth is really easy for an artificer. Infiltrator actually wants to be a ranged unit in heavy armor, especially since their weapon is lightning - loud and flashy. I won't call it a trap, but its definitely second fiddle.

But guardian does seem to be good, especially after I realized something. Shields. The guardian's attacks basically work when any part of your armor coming into contact with the enemy, so in theory a shoulder check or kick work just as well, so nothing stops you from using two shields, and getting two different defensive bonuses. Though, it should be noted that you're more susceptible to grapples than 2014.

At level 9, you get Hypnotic Pattern and Lightning Bolt, and at level 11 you can put it on a SSI; again I forgot about giving it to the homoculus. Level 13 you get greater invisibility and fire shield for some actual combat buffs that work well with the Armorer. Passwall and Wall of Force round out this at level 17, which... don't seem to vibe with the previous build at all?

The level 15 dreadnaught ability is once again terrible. Larger size increase with no real benefit other than finally pushing Large creatures, and 1.5 average damage increase. Infiltrator gets no actual infiltration powers, but some decent kiting abilities, but its coming online rather late game; nothing amazing. Guardian gets a damage boost and a very good reaction ability that synergizes well with its level 3 one.

So, overall I do think I'm slightly mistaken about Armorer, but only if we're talking Guardian. The other parts are bad, and that creates a rather negative impression of the entire subclass.

I can say, the guardian was strong in 2014. Would always be my prime option. On the other hand, having two more options is also nice. Since now, you can easily create any armor you want with your plans, no need to have the base item, you can transmute your armor from medium to heavy and backwards as much as you like. That also means you always have the best armor available.

Having only +1 to hit and damage seem to suck. But you should not forget that your casting stat and attack stat is the same. And you have magic weapon as a spell that does not need concentration anymore. So you can just cast that on your special weapon if needed.