D&D 5E (2024) Multiclass Ranger Fix?

[Zardnaar]

So the ranger isnt to popular. The class is mostly fine level 1-10 or so. As long as you know what you're doing and don't screw things up. At level 11 it starts falling behind the other martisls though.

So what multiclas would you do and when? Im not out to make a better ranger but character. The ranger forms the base. By 11 you need to compete with dual wielding paladins or fighters with 3 attacks or whatever the barbarians doing.

Current theorycraft builds. Dex 17, wisdom 14, con 14.

Hunter 5//Assassin 3+. Feats. 2 Zhentarim feats Heroes of Faerun, Sentinel feat lvl 9. Dual wields.

Hunter 5. Fighter 3+ EK or battlemaster. Not sure which.

Hunter 5/war cleric 6 Concentration free shield of faith or spiritual weapon. Spirit guardians lvl 5. Would consider dual wield feats.

 

[Kobold Stew]

There's some dry levels immediately after Ranger 5. 2 in Warlock and/or 2, 3, or 4 in Fighter would be easy picks after Ranger 11 or 12 (or 13 if you find your concentration is continually being broken).

 

[mellored]

If you want to still be a "ranger" then going half rogue half druid seems to be the obvious answer.

Or i just homebrew the ranger gets +Wis to damage at 11.

 

[Zardnaar]

If you want to still be a "ranger" then going half rogue half druid seems to be the obvious answer.

Or i just homebrew the ranger gets +Wis to damage at 11.

It is obvious but doesn't do much vs war cleric. Druids don't get spirit guardians to stack on top of weapon damage.

Zhent Hunter/assassin looks good for weapon damage

 

[ECMO3]

So the ranger isnt to popular. The class is mostly fine level 1-10 or so. As long as you know what you're doing and don't screw things up. At level 11 it starts falling behind the other martisls though.

So what multiclas would you do and when? Im not out to make a better ranger but character. The ranger forms the base. By 11 you need to compete with dual wielding paladins or fighters with 3 attacks or whatever the barbarians doing.

Current theorycraft builds. Dex 17, wisdom 14, con 14.

Hunter 5//Assassin 3+. Feats. 2 Zhentarim feats Heroes of Faerun, Sentinel feat lvl 9. Dual wields.

Hunter 5. Fighter 3+ EK or battlemaster. Not sure which.

Hunter 5/war cleric 6 Concentration free shield of faith or spiritual weapon. Spirit guardians lvl 5. Would consider dual wield feats.

Here is one:

Celestial Warlock 8/Fey Wanderer Ranger 12 for races I like Aasimar the best, but Orc, Dwarf and Goliath work well too.

S8 D14 C10 I8 W16 CH17 - using Invocations (Fienndish Vigor, Lessons-Tough) and Armor of Agathys to shore up the low hit points.

Levels - Warlock 1-Ranger 1-Warlock 2-Ranger 8-Warlock 7-Ranger 11-Warlock 8-Ranger 12

Feats: L1 Cult of Dragon Initiate, L6 Dragonscarred-CH18, L10 Spellfire Adept CH19, L12 Warcaster Ch20, L19 Boon of Spell Recall CH21, L20 Boon of Recovery CH22

Evocations: Pact of Blade L1, Agonizing Truestrike L3, Fiendish Vigor L3, Pact of Tome (for Shilelagh and Find Familiar) L13, Lessons of the first Ones-Tough L13, Eldritch Strike L15

This character starts out using Agonizing Truestrike with a Longsword (SAP) for melee and a Heavy Crossbow for Ranged. Change to a Musket when you have the $$. After extra attack comes online you can go two weapon fighting with a light pact weapon and a nick dex scimitar or use a Longsword using Agonizing Truestrike. When Shillelagh comes online you can two weapon fighting with a Shillelagh Club and a nick Pact Scimitar. Since Shillelagh is through Tome Pact it is on Charisma.

At high level you can add in Spellfire Adept damage when using Truestrike and Eldritch Smite damage whether or not using Truestrike. Unlike Smites, neither of these uses a bonus action.

The class is bonus action starved though. At level your highest damage option is two weapon figting with a Shillelagh-club and a nick pact scimitar but Shillelagh is a bonus to activate, your Dragonscarred uses a bonus action and is nearly at will, hunters mark is a bonus to activate, and occasional bonus actions for Celestial Revelation, misty step and Armor of Agathys.

For spells the go to Warlock spells are Tasha's Hideous laughter L1, Fear L13, Summon Fey L13, Dispel Magic L14. The way I read Fey Reinforcements is that you can summon the free casting as a Ranger (using Wisdom) but then you could still use Charisma when you summon using a slot without concentration. Ranger spells include Fig Cloud (with bat familiar to see through it), Goodberry, Pass Without Trace, Spike Growth, Silence and at high level Conjure Barrage.

At level 13 going Truestrike with a Musket is 1d12+2d6+1d4+10+5 (31) plus potentially more for Hunters Mark, Spellfire Spark, Celestial Revelation and/or Eldritch Smite. Average damage with all these would be 68.5 although it will be difficult to get all of that in one round.

Level 13 two weapon fighting with a shillelagh club and pact scimitar is 2d12+1d6+15+1d4 (33.5) potentially 67 with Hunter's Mark, Celestial Revelation and/or Eldritch Smite

Level 13 Truestrike with a Longsword is 1d10+2d6+1d4+10+5 (30) potentially 67.5 with Hunter's Mark, Celestial Revelation and/or Eldritch Smite.

This character will be real flexible with great ranged and control options and good melee. If you wanted to lean into melee and taknking more you would go sword and board with dueling or defense and truestrike javelins for range. It would take a hit on ranged attacks, but you would have more AC. I would also forgo Pact of Tome and Shillelagh if I did this, get Lessons of the first ones-magic initiate for Shield and stick to a Longsword.

 

[Zardnaar]

Here is one:

Celestial Warlock 8/Fey Wanderer Ranger 12 for races I like Aasimar the best, but Orc, Dwarf and Goliath work well too.

S8 D14 C10 I8 W16 CH17 - using Invocations (Fienndish Vigor, Lessons-Tough) and Armor of Agathys to shore up the low hit points.

Levels - Warlock 1-Ranger 1-Warlock 2-Ranger 8-Warlock 7-Ranger 11-Warlock 8-Ranger 12

Feats: L1 Cult of Dragon Initiate, L6 Dragonscarred-CH18, L10 Spellfire Adept CH19, L12 Warcaster Ch20, L19 Boon of Spell Recall CH21, L20 Boon of Recovery CH22

Evocations: Pact of Blade L1, Agonizing Truestrike L3, Fiendish Vigor L3, Pact of Tome (for Shilelagh and Find Familiar) L13, Lessons of the first Ones-Tough L13, Eldritch Strike L15

This character starts out using Agonizing Truestrike with a Longsword (SAP) for melee and a Heavy Crossbow for Ranged. Change to a Musket when you have the $$. After extra attack comes online you can go two weapon fighting with a light pact weapon and a nick dex scimitar or use a Longsword either as a pact weapon or using Agonizing Truestrike. When Shillelagh comes online you can two weapon fighting with a Shillelagh Club and a nick Pact Scimitar. Since Shillelagh is through Tome Pact it is on Charisma.

At high level you can add in Spellfire Adept damage when using Truestrike and Eldritch Smite damage whether or not using Truestrike. Unlike Smites, neither of these uses a bonus action.

The class is bonus action starved though. At level your highest damage option is two weapon figting with a Shillelagh-club and a nick pact scimitar but Shillelagh is a bonus to activate, your Dragonscarred uses a bonus action and is nearly at will, hunters mark is a bonus to activate, and occasional bonus actions for Celestial Revelation, misty step and Armor of Agathys.

For spells the go to Warlock spells are Tasha's Hideous laughter L1, Fear L13, Summon Fey L13, Dispel Magic L14. The way I read Fey Reinforcements is that you can summon the free casting as a Ranger (using Wisdom) but then you could still use Charisma when you summon using a slot without concentration. Ranger spells include Fig Cloud (with bat familiar to see through it), Goodberry, Pass Without Trace, Spike Growth, Silence and at high level Conjure Barrage.

At level 13 going Truestrike with a Musket is 1d12+2d6+1d4+10+5 (31) plus potentially more for Hunters Mark, Spellfire Spark, Celestial Revelation and/or Eldritch Smite. Peak damage with all these would be 68.5 although it will be difficult to get all of that in one round.

Level 13 two weapon fighting with a shillelagh club and pact scimitar is 2d12+1d6+15+1d4 (33.5) potentially up to 67 with Hunter's Mark, Celestial Revelation and/or Eldritch Smite

Level 13 Truestrike with a Longsword is 1d10+2d6+1d4+10+5 (30) potentially 67.5 with Hunter's Mark, Celestial Revelation and/or Eldritch Smite

Simple build of that could be fae touched ranger and EK MC.

RAW dragon cultists cant boost charisma.

 

[Tigris]

What exactly is the (perceived) problem with the Ranger? If the problem is spirit guardiansy just dont use that/play with people who dont use that/eont allow it as a GM.




Because I am not so sure why a 17 dex character should be able to solve that at level 11. Not only do you miss +2 to hit and damage compared a 20 dex character, but you also either have disadvantage on stealth or -1 AC (and needed more gold for the armor) and -2 on stealth and acrobatics (and maybe even sleight of hand and thieving tools depending if you have a rogue). And you also have -2 on dex saves.

Also on level 11 3a ranger normally gets a (hopefully strong) subclass feature. (And an extra spell slot).

I agree that after level 11 2-3 levels of fighter can make sense. Second wind (also for skill checks) and action surge (and some subclasses) do bring a lot of power.

Warlock in theory has cool options, but 13 cha is annoying. I much rather have 20 dex, 16 wis, 14 con which does allow fighter but not Warlock.


Ok I just looked up the subclass features and well the subclasses (except beast ranger), just have level 11 subclass features which are a bit weak. So maybe the easiest solution is to take some of the 5.14 subclasses? (Although only the horizon walker and dragon pet really scale well at level 11..) Since I dont take it as a ranger design problem but a subclass design problem and many 5.14 subclasses also have it.


I guess part of this "subclasses having weak level 11 feaure" have to do with the fact that many subclasses scale with wis. And on level 12 you get another wis increase (and level 16 another), but well still subclasses shouls have more powerfull level 11 features. Since it needs to be worth an extra attack+ a bit more since other classes get subclasses on 12 as well.

 

[Zardnaar]

What exactly is the (perceived) problem with the Ranger? If the problem is spirit guardiansy just dont use that/play with people who dont use that/eont allow it as a GM.




Because I am not so sure why a 17 dex character should be able to solve that at level 11. Not only do you miss +2 to hit and damage compared a 20 dex character, but you also either have disadvantage on stealth or -1 AC (and needed more gold for the armor) and -2 on stealth and acrobatics (and maybe even sleight of hand and thieving tools depending if you have a rogue). And you also have -2 on dex saves.

Also on level 11 3a ranger normally gets a (hopefully strong) subclass feature. (And an extra spell slot).

I agree that after level 11 2-3 levels of fighter can make sense. Second wind (also for skill checks) and action surge (and some subclasses) do bring a lot of power.

Warlock in theory has cool options, but 13 cha is annoying. I much rather have 20 dex, 16 wis, 14 con which does allow fighter but not Warlock.


Ok I just looked up the subclass features and well the subclasses (except beast ranger), just have level 11 subclass features which are a bit weak. So maybe the easiest solution is to take some of the 5.14 subclasses? (Although only the horizon walker and dragon pet really scale well at level 11..) Since I dont take it as a ranger design problem but a subclass design problem and many 5.14 subclasses also have it.


I guess part of this "subclasses having weak level 11 feaure" have to do with the fact that many subclasses scale with wis. And on level 12 you get another wis increase (and level 16 another), but well still subclasses shouls have more powerfull level 11 features. Since it needs to be worth an extra attack+ a bit more since other classes get subclasses on 12 as well.

Look at how barbarian damage scales and lvl 11 Fighter and Paladin abilities.

Beastmaster ranger. Bonus action command pet and to set hunters mark.

 

[ECMO3]

Another option is a Monk-Fighter dip.

Monk 1/Fighter 1/Ranger 19 works get thrown weapon fighting and two weapon fighting and go nick daggers plus martial arts with your daggers doing 1d6

You could also do Monk 2, 3 or 4 and/or Fighter 2, 3 or 4 depending on how you want to split it.

In a pure combat build you could go Dex 17, Wisdom 16, Constitution 15 and get the grappler feat.

You have great control for a non-caster.

 

[Zardnaar]

Another option is a Monk-Fighter dip.

Monk 1/Fighter 1/Ranger 19 works get thrown weapon fighting and two weapon fighting and go nick daggers plus martial arts with your daggers doing 1d6

You could also do Monk 2, 3 or 4 and/or Fighter 2, 3 or 4 depending on how you want to split it.

In a pure combat build you could go Dex 17, Wisdom 16, Constitution 15 and get the grappler feat.

You have great control for a non-caster.

Playable from level 1 was another requirement. When are you taking the dips?