What Do You Think Of As "Modern TTRPG Mechanics"?

[Thomas Shey]

I don't think you have to go as far as Earthdawn.

Per the 4e D&D PHB (p 54):

Encounter powers produce more powerful, more dramatic effects than at-will powers. If you're a martial character, they are exploits that you've practiced extensively but can pull off only once in a while. . . .​

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Daily powers are the most powerful effects you can produce, and using one takes a significant toll on your physical and mental resources. If you're a martial character, you're reaching into your deepest reserves of energy to pull of an amazing exploit. . . .​

​

Martial powers are not magic in the traditional sense, though some martial powers stand well beyond the capabilities of ordinary mortals. Martial characters use their own strength and willpower to vanquish their enemies. Training and dedication replace arcane formulas and prayers . . .​

Limited-used abilities correspond to effort and willpower that are limited resources for even the greatest hero.

If that's all that's required to make something non-meta (as per the discussion of Force Points) then these abilities are not meta!

That doesn't help, because the people involved in complaints don't see why that would apply to individual powers. They'd probably have been more accepting of an "effort point" system or the like (and yeah, some of the complaints go way back to any "X a day" power for the same reasons.

Remember, a lot of objections to this are launched at gamism, so...

 

[Pedantic]

That doesn't help, because the people involved in complaints don't see why that would apply to individual powers. They'd probably have been more accepting of an "effort point" system or the like (and yeah, some of the complaints go way back to any "X a day" power for the same reasons.

Remember, a lot of objections to this are launched at gamism, so...

I really think it's down to direct mapping of player and character decision making and forward causality from action determination to resolution. The character and player make a decision to do something, then something happens.

 

[Deset Gled]

The character and player make a decision to do something, then something happens.

 

[mamba]

But they represent something that is in the text.

not really, because in the text you never track points or can run out of them

 

[zakael19]

On the macro level it’s part of my whole confusion around Apocalypse World. How many NPC’s are taking part in the fight to defend the water station. It really matters a lot and I don’t know how to decide.

I mean, isn't the answer to look to the resources the Threat or PC brings to bear? There's set sizes of gangs, and the groupings have meanings when they engage each other. And basically all groups of significant NPCs are written up as Threats, so should know if it's a small gang of 15 bastards, a medium one of 30 or so hard bitten hyenas, or whatever.

 

[pemerton]

That doesn't help, because the people involved in complaints don't see why that would apply to individual powers. They'd probably have been more accepting of an "effort point" system or the like (and yeah, some of the complaints go way back to any "X a day" power for the same reasons.

That can be an aesthetic preference, sure. But if Force Points are not "meta" - even though, in the fiction, no one earns points or spends points or risks running out of points - then the limited use martial powers aren't "meta" either. Because the requirement for not meta is being set at the level simply of does this connect to something in the fiction. And willpower and effort are things in the fiction.

I really think it's down to direct mapping of later and character decision making and forward causality from action determination to resolution. The character and player make a decision to do something, then something happens.

Sure, but Force Points are no different in this respect. Which is the point of this particular tangent - if Force Points are not "meta", then neither are 4e encounter/daily martial powers.

 

[Micah Sweet]

not really, because in the text you never track points or can run out of them

Again, the method matters far less to me than the fact that it represents something real in the fiction, with demonstrable effects.

 

[thefutilist]

I mean, isn't the answer to look to the resources the Threat or PC brings to bear? There's set sizes of gangs, and the groupings have meanings when they engage each other. And basically all groups of significant NPCs are written up as Threats, so should know if it's a small gang of 15 bastards, a medium one of 30 or so hard bitten hyenas, or whatever.

Yeah it’s easy with gangs, which also tends to mean the combat is more zoomed out. Have you seen Vincent’s example of the fight for the water station? It has about 6 npc’s v 3 pc’s and 1 npc. Something like that anyway. It’s on this scale of granularity that it gets hard. Although I’ll admit a huge part of that is because the damage system is so deterministic.

In play it often felt like the way I decided to adjudicate things was more of a determining factor than the system or the player choices. To the extent I was wondering why I was using the system at all, what benefit is it giving me over just playing ‘the pool’ or something of the sort.

 

[Umbran]

I don't see this social coordination stuff as overlapping with GMing.

I don't think it is a formal requirement, but I do think that the GM as organizing force is so common as it cannot be disregarded.

If nothing else, it is probably safe to guess that wherever the GM does have the organizing role, it is not work they can shift to others, and they will viewing as part and parcel of being a GM.

I do think the site has seen a fair number of folks saying that the organizing work is a strong influence on their burnout as GMs, for example.

 

[mamba]

Again, the method matters far less to me than the fact that it represents something real in the fiction, with demonstrable effects.

but then you can turn anything meta into something non-meta, as has been shown a few times in the last few posts. Worst case it is fate or an intervention by the gods. So your approach wipes out any distinction between meta-currencies and other forms of resource tracking, so it feels particularly unhelpful