D&D 5E (2024) Tier 1 Encounters RAW Getting Hit With Cone of Cold 4th Level?

[Zardnaar]

So I have a 5 Person Party.

Heres some numbers

​

Xp Per CR Monsters
CR1/8 25 xp
CR¼ 50xp
CR½ 100
CR1 200 xp
CR2 450
CR3 700
CR4 1100
CR5 1800
CR6 2300

Xp Buckets Encounter Design Low, Medium High (LMH)

Lvl3 150, 275, 400 Per PC
Lvl4 CR 250/375/500 per PC

My players are currently Level 4. LMH xp budgets are 1250, 1875 and 2500. Goblins are 50xp, Ogres and Gargoyles are 450. Rules recommend you don't go over X2 the party size. In my case that is 10.

If you do ignore that you can throw 45 Goblins at a party. For a low encounter. You can also do something like 2 Ogres I suppose and 7 goblins for a low encounter. A high one is double that. 5 Gargoyles can be a high encounter at 4th level with 250xp spare. You could also use a CR 6 critter and 4-8 minions at 4th that is potentially a Mage with cone of cold. Or a CR5 Gladiator with 700 xp left over.

At level 3 I did a high encounter. 2 Ogres, Goblin Hexer (CR 3)and 8 Goblins. That was almost a TPK and the party had to nova of and were basically tanked for the day.

Party

1 Paladin (Vengeance)
Rogue (assassin)
Barbarian (Great Weapon)
Knowledge Cleric
Star Druid

So I'm wondering. Is anyone else trying the RAW? To me its an art form but generally even with low encounters the PCS are struggling a bit. 3-4 encounters they are tanked. At level 12 one day I gave them 10 encounters (3 low, medium, high, 1 boss fight). No surprises the higher level ones did it a lot better.

1 Boss, few minions (CR 4-6 depends). Very vulnerable to things like command.
Few (CR 1-3) generally you get around 4-6 monsters. Comparatively buckets of HP
Many (8-12+) Similar to few but often multiple CR 1/8th to 1 to pad out the numbers with left overs. AoEs early on are weak however.


For the most part I'm using fairly typical monsters low CR monsters. Goblins, Hobgoblins, Zhent soldiers, Ogres, skeletons, cultists, apprentice mage zombies and some shadows and spectres. Nothing meta aimed at PCs specifically. Tomorrow I'm using orcs (probably thugs, thug bosses MM substitutes etc cant be bothered carrying to many books).

Any suggestions of encounters or thoughts on what I have laid out RAW.? Not after specifics but a 1250 encounter could be 1 CR 2 and 8 CR1's. THats a lot of HP to chew through however.

 

[Minigiant]

Yes

A CR 4 monster can pop out 1 level 4 spell for 3 turns and be on CR.

 

[Zardnaar]

Yes

A CR 4 monster can pop out 1 level 4 spell for 3 turns and be on CR.

CoC is5th lvl.

 

[Shiroiken]

The encounter guidelines for 5E24 are much more accurate than the 5E14 DMG. I've been running a series of adventures that have many encounters without a long rest. To keep the party from getting whipped, I've been using about half the value of on level Low encounters. By taking numerous short rests, they've been able to handle about 8-9 of those per long rest, plus one Medium encounter/boss fight. Last session they had only 4 combat encounters before a long rest, so I set those up as all Medium encounters, and they did fine (actually a lot better than the high number of weaker fights). My next series of sessions is likely to have 1-2 High difficulty encounters, plus 2-3 Medium encounters before a long rest, and we'll see how that goes.

Edit: I didn't answer the question... While I didn't hit a tier 1 party with a cone of cold, I did hit a level 5 party with a Mind Flayer. It used it's mind blast, which would be about equivalent. I rolled high and one PC rolled badly, causing him to drop from near full to 0 HP. However, the party used good tactics and prevented it from getting another mind blast off before they withdrew.

 

[Minigiant]

CoC is5th lvl.

Doesn't change what I said.

Coc, Fireball 4th, Fireball 4th is just a ignorable amount of damage too high.

 

[Peter BOSCO'S]

Per RAW, a CR 6 Mage would be a Hard Encounter for a party of 6 L3 characters or 5 L4 characters. They can cast 'Cone of Cold' once per day (average 36 damage DC 14 CON save for half in a 60' cone), than switch to their two daily L4 Fireballs (average 31 damage, DC 14 DEX save for half in 40' diameter sphere). Mage | D&D 2024 | Roll20 Compendium

 

[Paul Farquhar]

If you do ignore that you can throw 45 Goblins at a party.

I did hit a level 5 party with a Mind Flayer.

These are good examples of why trying to mathematicise encounter design is doomed to fail. 45 goblins running at the party down a narrow corridor is a pushover. 45 goblins shooting arrows from behind crenelated walls is going to be difficult. A mindflayer who manages to get the whole party inside the cone AoE of it's mind blast in round one could easily get a TPK. But the same mindflayer shot full of arrows at range is a pushover.

As for Cone of Cold, D&D has a long tradition of taking out casters before they can get a spell off, so it doesn't really matter what they can cast. But Hypnotic Pattern is level 2 and potentially more dangerous than CoC.

 

[Distracted DM]

Edit: I didn't answer the question... While I didn't hit a tier 1 party with a cone of cold, I did hit a level 5 party with a Mind Flayer. It used it's mind blast, which would be about equivalent. I rolled high and one PC rolled badly, causing him to drop from near full to 0 HP. However, the party used good tactics and prevented it from getting another mind blast off before they withdrew.

Do note that there's a big difference between level 4 and level 5. 5 is one of the big power jump levels. Extra attacks, 3rd level spells, whatever other extras.. it's a biggie.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

These are good examples of why trying to mathematicise encounter design is doomed to fail.

In 5th edition, sure.