Let's Talk About Core Game Mechanics

[Fenris-77]

Rolling the dice represents allowing the setting and its current state to make a decision involving risk and/or consequences. Since the roll is usually wrapped in specific diegetic trappings, I think its somewhat trivial to say that it does indeed represent something. An RPG die roll certainly isn't the same as a coin flip about dinner - that suggests that the roll doesn't matter, whereas in RPG terms rolls are only about things that matter (otherwise we wouldn't be rolling).

There are rolls that are simply randomizing in RPGs of course, but those aren't the rolls I'm talking about.

 

[pemerton]

Rolling the dice represents allowing the setting and its current state to make a decision involving risk and/or consequences. Since the roll is usually wrapped in specific diegetic trappings, I think its somewhat trivial to say that it does indeed represent something. An RPG die roll certainly isn't the same as a coin flip about dinner - that suggests that the roll doesn't matter, whereas in RPG terms rolls are only about things that matter (otherwise we wouldn't be rolling).

Huh? Why does comparing the roll of a die in a RPG to the toss of a coin imply that it doesn't matter? I don't follow that ostensible implication at all.

When you say that "the roll is usually wrapped in specific diegetic trappings", I assume you are referring to things like dice pools that are built by reference to aspects of the PC build or "modifiers that are applied by reference to the fictional state of affairs*. This doesn't make the roll itself representative.

For instance, in Burning Wheel, when my PC utters a prayer to try and relieve his other of her worries and burdens, the dice pool is built by reference to my PC's Faith attribute, and also (if I spend them) my spent Persona points. But this doesn't make the roll itself representational. The roll tells us whether or not my PC's prayer does indeed relieve his mother of her worries and burdens. But it doesn't represent anything. I mean, what would it represent?

 

[Fenris-77]

Huh? Why does comparing the roll of a die in a RPG to the toss of a coin imply that it doesn't matter? I don't follow that ostensible implication at all.

When you toss a coin to see where you're going for dinner the implication is that the result doesn't matter - you are randomizing between two equal choices (for some value of equal). Nothing about the example really applies to RPG play as far as I can see.

When you say that "the roll is usually wrapped in specific diegetic trappings", I assume you are referring to things like dice pools that are built by reference to aspects of the PC build or "modifiers that are applied by reference to the fictional state of affairs*. This doesn't make the roll itself representative.

No, I mean rolls made at the table during the course of the conversation, so mostly the rolls that accrue due to action declarations (as opposed to rolling on a random table). The very fact of the action declaration and scaffolding of difficulty and result based on diegetic circumstance makes it 'important' and pretty specific.

For instance, in Burning Wheel, when my PC utters a prayer to try and relieve his other of her worries and burdens, the dice pool is built by reference to my PC's Faith attribute, and also (if I spend them) my spent Persona points. But this doesn't make the roll itself representational. The roll tells us whether or not my PC's prayer does indeed relieve his mother of her worries and burdens. But it doesn't represent anything. I mean, what would it represent?

It represents chance and difficulties imposed by diegetic circumstance in cases where a given action is important to the character. In each case the action and its modifiers are a unit. The die roll represents the uneven hand of fate or the impersonal vicissitudes of circumstance (or whatever) - but always in a specific way impressed on a particular action. Taken one way it represents something that the player cares enough about to risk his character in order to achieve it (without the roll there is no real risk).

The use of dice to represent the element of fortune is pretty core to RPG play. I'm not sure what the juice is in trying to say that the roll is meaningless when it's pretty obviously not.

 

[mamba]

This is what I'm saying is not true in most of my RPGing. When characters fight; or when a character tries to pick a lock; there is something happening in the fiction. The roll of the dice doesn't represent that something. But it contributes to how we - the game participants - decide what is happening in the fiction.

huh? so the resolution mechanic meant to resolve what is going on in the fiction has nothing to do with what is going on in the fiction?

Then why are you using that mechanic for it, just because that is what the book says to do? Why did the book decide to use it? At some point there should have been someone who decided that this is a better representation than flipping a coin or rolling 1d6 with 4+ being a success…

It sounds like you are saying that as long as there is a result it does not matter how you got there / what the chances of success were or what the possible results are (tiers vs success/failure) and neither the game design nor the player should concern themselves with such things. That is very odd to me… why are you not simply tossing a coin then