The Dungeon Masters' Foundation

Mordmorgan the Mad said:
You may want to take a look at the Call of Cthulhu magic system. Anyone can use magic but they take ability damage (and sometimes ability drain) as well as sanity damage.

Definitely not. I don't want magic use to be damaging, I just don't want it to outshine absolutely everything else in the game, or the become so necessary that higher level characters without a crapload of magic items are horrible against creatures that are supposedly their encounter level.

Actually, I think I'm gonna give the Sorcerer twice as many spell slots as I decided on before. Each one is still only equal to one spell per day, and I don't want them to be too limited.
 

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@ Topic: Caster Damage
If you keep it the way it is, it is a justified system. For instance: An epic fighter, with two weapons: If he has Improved Critical (scimitar), and both of his weapons are +5 Vorpal Scimitars then we are talking a crit range of 15-20 (25% or rolls) and (assuuming he has all the feats) 8 attacks. Now that should result in about 2 decapitations a round on average. 2 Instant kills a round regardless of the target (unless its undead or something, most things die when their heads are removed) Now that seems like a pretty good balance to a Sorceror chucking Hellballs.

@Sorceror Variant
WOW! That variant is awesome and amazingly creative. That so goes into my next campaign
 

ChaosEvoker said:
@ Topic: Caster Damage
If you keep it the way it is, it is a justified system. For instance: An epic fighter, with two weapons: If he has Improved Critical (scimitar), and both of his weapons are +5 Vorpal Scimitars then we are talking a crit range of 15-20 (25% or rolls) and (assuuming he has all the feats) 8 attacks. Now that should result in about 2 decapitations a round on average. 2 Instant kills a round regardless of the target (unless its undead or something, most things die when their heads are removed) Now that seems like a pretty good balance to a Sorceror chucking Hellballs.
The Vorpal property only works on a natural 20, so you're still looking at a 5% chance per hit. You'd be better off with a "Burst" weapon (i.e. Flaming Burst) which does an extra 1d10 on a crit.
 
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Hail to the Foundation Of Dungeon Masters!

IM BAAAAAAACK!!!!!!!!!!

And its good to see so many of the DMFs freinds made the switch to, from all that i've seen, A better Forum.
This place has grown insanely fast and Im not sure who all is here so give me awhile and i'll be back up to full speed.

Good to be back.
 

One thing you should keep in mind is that magic is a limited resource. Melee types can swing their weapons all day long. Well, so long as they don't run out of the HP limited resource. Archers and the like are limited by their ammunition. Spellcasters are limited by their spells/day. Of course, scrolls, wands and similar items can buff that up as well.

So, spellscasters do a good job of using limited resources to spike huge amounts of damage at a time. Melee specialists just swing and swing and swing. Especially since the concept of combat fatigue is abstracted into HP. Over the course of a day, a melee combatant can dish out more damage than any spellcaster.

But that is not how most adventuring groups work. Everybody recognizes the value of the heavy spells. So when a spellcaster begins to run low on spells, most adventuring groups will choose to fallback, regroup and replenish spells. This is natural. If you want to maximize survivability, you minimize your weaknesses. But it does help push spellcasting to a more valuable presence in the game.

So how do you change that? Well, you present scenarios that are designed to drain resources as well as placing time constraints on the story. Use attrition to emphasize the groups reliance on magic solutions. Give them 13 hours in which they have to break into the cults hidden lair, fight their way to the room where the ritual is being held and then stop the ritual. Then construct the scenario so that they have to go through several challenges to reach that goal. Force them to make difficult choices and if they fall back to regroup, they fail to stop the ritual. Bad things happen and they are left with the knowledge that they wussed out rather then stop it.

Of course, if your group has never dealt with this before, it might not be well received. "It wasn't fair", "there was no way we could win", and other similar battle whines might be heard. No, it might not be fair. This is a cult trying to reach a goal. Do you really think they would leave themselves unprotected at the height of their ritual? Make sure there is a way to win, but don't make sure it is easy. Failure is part of character development. Taking big risks is part of being a hero. Victory in adverse conditions is all the more sweet.

In the last campaign I ran, the heroes chose to journey through "The Impassable Forest". This was a little scenario that I called Attrition. The PC's would be attacked every 2-6 hours. They were torn between staying in one place to get rest and never advancing, or moving forward and hoping they could withstand the onslaught. They eventually won a brief reprieve when they neared an outpost they were looking for and hunkered down in hiding long enough to prep an assault. That assault didn't go very well, but they did win. Then they had to journey further into the forest to move closer to their goal. The lowpoint came when they neared the area controlled by the yuan-ti. This was the goal they were aiming for, but they managed to get a patrol of yuan-ti rangers on their tail. This patrol called in two other patrols. The three groups of three rangers would take turns. They would sneak up on the camp, launch arrows into anybody sleeping, drop a darkness on the camp and leave. There were 9 of them and each can use darkness once a day. The spellcasters were next to useless after a while. They couldn't rest long enough to get spells because each time they tried, they would get hit with arrows.

The group averaged 6-7th level at the time.

They eventually prevailed and were victorious. It took a lot of hard work and they struggled greatly. But the players still show a certain amount of pride at having succeeded and none of them think the melee combatants are nothing more than fodder. They know that the melee combatants were the ones that eventually won the reprieve that let them regain their rest, and spells.

It was a fun scenario. I kept thinking they would turn around and flee, but they kept pressing onward until their only option was to go forward. The groups tactics improved a bit. They later encountered situations where they would have liked to have fallen back to regroup, but they knew they didn't have the time. They dealt with it and I think almost every single PC had a moment where they could shine in that campaign.

So yes, magic is an important resource in D&D. But it only overshines everything when the group allows it to. As DM, you can force them to rely less on magic. Or at least to use their magic more effectively than in big evocations. Sometimes a scry or a wall spell will have infinitely more value than chain lightning. Force the players to look at different options by putting the PCs in peril with tough decisions.
 

Dyne. Do to the sheer scope of your project, I’m just going to just throw a bunch of ideas about and see if any of it is helpful.

Dyne said:
On Warlocks: I want the game to be more low-magic, but I don't want all spellcasters to route their power from a fiendish source. Vancian spellcasting just annoys me.

Midnight has a completely different approach to arcane magic. It is based on spell points. Any class can take the Magecraft feat that grants spell point and access to limited arcane casting (one school). The channeler class allows those with the Magecraft feat to excel at spell casting by increasing spell points and access to more schools of magic. The system gives great versatility to spell casting without being overpowered.

Another option I personally like a lot over the vancian spellcasting is the system in Arcana unearthed. It’s close to the standard system but much better IMO and incredibly more versatile. Plus the spells in AU are not as powerful on average to compensate.
Definitely worth a look.
 

I love that Bard. In the End long fights are the most rewarding. And I wish my players were like yours (If wishes were fishes we'd all cast nets!), they would just get angry and complain.

@Evoker- Who all made it through the switch to these excellently moderated boards. I can not believe how active these moderators are compared to those hermits at the WotC Boards!
 

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Dyne said:
On potions: Actually, I would have them be more common. The idea was to be able to have any old apothecary be able to mix together a few herbs and: voila, a potion. But, in order for this to totally work, I would have to go through and eliminate some of the potions that don't totally fit the idea because they are too closely tied to magic.

Interesting. Way to go and push the system. I like it.

I would still keep the DC high so I rogue doesn’t get a wild hair one level, dump all of his skill ranks into Alchemy, then start pumping out potions. Then again, you may be cool with that…

You could eliminate some spells, or you could make it so spell casters only have the option for “highly magical” potions. Or you could keep the potions tied to magic but up the cost, DC, or require special components to make them rare.

Another interesting idea for potions is what I did in my homebrew based on some ideas from the Diamond Throne: Change the nature of the potion so it thematically ties to the spell. Spells that effect the spell caster could be a potion (like invisibility) while spells that effect an area could be a powder or dust (Shield: Dust of Shielding). And finally, potions that affect others become oils (Oil of Burning Hands, pour it on your hands and point away, or Oil of Cure Light Wounds).
 

Xen155 said:
I can not believe how active these moderators are compared to those hermits at the WotC Boards!

The Mods here rock. They are fair. Keep the peace (and help keep ENWorld great!). And love the game and give great input.
 

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