Mooninite's close Boston

Paradox said:

And don't get me started on blaming the media. The public wants to know why they're stuck in traffic, and why access roads and bridges are shut down. Did the media "over react" during the 9/11 attacks? No complaints about the media then, were there?

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Yeah ok. There was a traffic jam.

Totally compares to buildings falling down on 9-11.

You're totally right. CNN really should have jumped on this with the "OMFG BOMB! TERRORIST" meme that they did.

I lived in an apartment that had the fire alarm go off at all hours. Sometimes it was punk kids, other times, overcooked food. I made it a house rule to get out of the house every time the alarm went off. It did not matter that we knew it was a false alarm. While I was never happy with some of our response times to get out- mostly due to having to drag the cat from under the bed, I was pleased that we always reacted right off the bat. No thinking about it, no assuming it's not a real fire.

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The fact that you'd equate a fire alarm to a lite brite of a comic character flipping the bird says all that needs to be said about how soft, weak and paranoid this country has become.

This wasn't a bomb threat. That is the equivalent of a fire alarm.

This is equivalent of you coming out of your apartment to find a flyer under your windshield wiper and calling the cops.

If a terrorist wants to bomb a bridge, he's not going to put the bomb in a lite brite designed to draw your attention. He's going to make it look like a cell phone or a laptop.

Oh and btw... laptops also have lights (OMG), wires (OMG!) and batteries (OMFG!!!).

Should the bomb squad be called for every discarded laptop found on a college campus?

Outside the courthouse, Michael Rich, a lawyer for both of the men, said the description of a bomb-like device could be used for any electronic device.

``If somebody had left a VCR on the ground it would have been a device with wires, electronic components and a power source,'' he said.

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Apparently the bomb squad should be paying regular visits to to check out people's trash. I threw away an old VCR awhile back. Sure glad it wasn't mistaken for a roadside bomb!

Listen to me closely.

There. Are. No. Bombs.

The whole thing is freaking pointless.

The officials in the other 9 cities reacted appropriately.

Thankfully though, Boston has shown the terrorist jackals that lite brites are not going to be usable as bombs.

I feel so much safer now.

Paradox said:

First of all, nobody got hysterical. There was no panic. Police and other officials used established proceedures. They can never assume something is NOT a bomb.

Looking at the device is EXACTLY what the bomb squad was called in to do. It's their job to determine and dispose of the suspicious materials. I'm not sure why some people think everyone should know what this cartoon is about.

"It's just a lite bright!" Sure, that can be determined from a static photo from the safety of your own home. But... standing under a bridge with a device that is not supposed to be there hooked up with wires and batteries is something different. Hence, the bomb squad. And even if they recognize the character, it doesn't matter. They HAVE to treat it like a live bomb.

"It's too flat to contain explosives". Not so. Plastic explosives can be shaped. Not to mention the circut board itself might be just the trigger device for something set nearby.

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Yes, like I said it could have been a cunningly designed bomb, with the light brite bits being made out of the plastic explosives. But has there ever been a bomb like that in the history of bombs? No. To anyone who is thinking even remotely clearly, it was obviously just a sign.

Just about any object you can possibly imagine could fulfill your criteria. Should we suddenly start calling in the bomb squad every time there is a discarded soda or beer can? For all we know, it could be full of plastic explosives. It could explode when you pick it up.

Or how about traffic cones? Some of those even come with flashing lights. If someone calls the bomb squad on a traffic cone with a flashing light, should the authorities really cause a panic, shut down the city, blow it up, etc? Then start a city wide manhunt for other traffic cones?

There's a difference been being cautious and being hysterical. If there is a genuine reason to believe something is a bomb, then yes, you should be cautious. But that wasn't the case. There was no reason at all to think it was a bomb. Just having flashing lights and wires is not a bomb.

Pretty much all the super-deadly bombs in the US have been done by truck bombs (with the exception of the one in the 1900s which was a horse cart). As far as I know, the authorities and media don't panic every time there is an abandoned truck, but there is far more reason to fear one of those than a flashing sign. If it looked like a pipe-bomb, that might have been a good reason for some reaction. But it obviously wasn't even that.

It can't be comparable to a false fire alarm and a fire, because real fires happen every day. And they have happened throughout history. On the other hand, this would have been a unique occurance. You can't live your life in fear of weird possibilities like that. It's entirely possible that your pets might have been taken over by aliens bent on world domination. But that doesn't mean you should shoot them the first time they look at you funny.

Dude, I saw three of these in Cleveland (my hometown) on Euclid Avenue and instantly recognized them for what they were. I grinned a bit and continued walking down the street with no problems. I'm well aware of plastique and it's uses, and there is really no way to make an effective bomb out of those things. They're funny little signs, that's all.

Silly, primitive Boston. We Clevelandites have evolved beyond the need for your puny and unimpressive hysteria brought on by silly signs. Carving profanity into your car with a key is a sign of trust, and friendship.

I'm surprised no fans of the show saw them and said, "Neat!" and took them down.

The weird thing is that after these things were up for a week or two did someone call into the police to report them in Boston! These things did not attract attention before that. Hmm, an ad campaign not attracting attention.... Could that have led someone who was being paid for results to take a step to draw more attention to a viral ad campaign? They need to look into who it was that made those calls into the police.

The only over-reaction was from the politicians and some commentators. Even the guys after their arraignment were snarky because their lawyer told them to not discuss the case . They were young and creative so decided it was okay to talk about something, so they chose hair.

It was a dumb viral campaign but 30 seconds on the one channel the Superbowl is on costs $2.4 million and Turner is expected to be charged $1 million for this uproar after days of national news coverage . Just another thing to make you hmmm.

They were on Euclid and I missed them? Any idea if they are still up?

As for what happened in Boston, hopefully it will force people to reevaluate how we deal with bomb threats of this nature. Frankly, there are a lot of things lying around that could be potentially be thought of as bombs. Cars, trash cans, boxes, circuit boards, etc. How do we decide which ones we just pick up and throw out versus what we spend $750,000 investigating? Do we just decide based on whether an anonymous caller calls in and reports it as suspicious looking? Ultimately it does come down to some person just looking at it and making a decision.

I don't mean to lighten the potential seriousness of bomb threats, but people may realize now that they can easily shut down an interstate or bridge just by leaving a random piece of junk on it. If people start doing that intentionally then they could easily cause millions in damages. Certainly the police need to respond to all bomb threats but perhaps once they are there they could make a better evaluation before calling in the bomb squad and shutting down the road.

Basically it all comes down to a question of (probability of bomb)*(cost of failing to detect bomb) vs (probability of not bomb)*(cost of investigation). There is obviously such a thing as being too cautious and not being cautious enough, so where should the line be drawn?

A lot of responses seem to assume that this thing was clearly lit up when called in. The reports say that once they were determined not to be explosive one "lit up when taken into a darkened area." In other words, they have a light trigger as one would expect for this kind of device.

I have used sullivan station many times living in boston. The highway bridge is quite high above the station itself. The image could probably be seen at night when lit up, but in daylight hours the chances of recognizing it from the lower deck as anything but a bulky object with wires somewhere where such things quite cleary do not belong is slim to none. People are looking at pictures of it taken in optimal conditions from a few feet away and saying its obviously not a bomb.

Sullivan square is also not a particularly residential neighborhood on the T parkking lot side. Its people going back and forth to the T and highway. That means the people who saw it in the daylight had no reason to have seen it at night. And while people are commenting on "the campaign" having been on for weeks, the "artists" stated that this particular item went up monday night.

Finally, at the risk of repeating myself, this thing wasn't on a wall or something. It was attached to a bridge of the major Boston highway where it crosses over a subway and (iirc) commuter rail line. Another one was found on the Charles Street bridge. We are talking about locations which, if there was a Terrorist's Guide to F-ing Up Boston would have little gold stars on them. The plice acted entirely appropriately in blocking off the area until they knew what was going on. The fact that they aren't psychic isn't something I feel the need to hold against them.

Edit: This thing was also not lying around. It was "attached to a stanchion supporting Interstate 93 and near the train line." This is a location where things are placed, deliberately and illegally.

http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/10903594/detail.html has a timeline of the day from the non-psychic police perspective.

Paradox said:

Over in Chicago, police were suddenly concerned that someone there could mistake if for a bomb during the super bowl. THAT is when you would have seen a panic. http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-070201cline,1,1094465.story?coll=chi-news-hed

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the chicago cops were just upset that they didn't get their cut first.

Kahuna Burger said:

Edit: This thing was also not lying around. It was "attached to a stanchion supporting Interstate 93 and near the train line." This is a location where things are placed, deliberately and illegally.

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Things like grafitti and flyers?

People had better watch out for crosses and flowers left near intersections where traffic fatalities have occurred. If you see a cross or a bouquet of flowers left unattended, remember that it could have a bomb attached to it, and call the authorities. Anyone in a public square in a bulky costume (you know, those people who dress up as cartoon characters or clowns while busking?) could conceivably be wearing an explosive device under their costume. Please call those in.

Remember that these are the same Boston police who arrested a war protester who had dressed himself in a black hood and strapped electrodes to himself to look like one of the Abu Gharaib prisoners. Arresting him for failing to stop an illegal demonstration is legal, and I have no interest in the politics of someone demonstrating in that outfit. However, the police also decided that because the protester was wearing electrodes, just like the prisoners at Abu Gharaib, he had implicitly made a bomb threat -- despite never speaking, moving, or in any way indicating that he had a bomb. (He was standing in the arms-outstretched position on a stool, again to simulate the Abu Gharaib prisoners.) They attempted to charge him with making a bomb threat until they were shot down by the district attorney.

The Boston police have a proud tradition of believing that anything with wires is a bomb. They are gutless, contemptible, and demonstrative of everything that is wrong with the system.

Kahuna Burger said:

A lot of responses seem to assume that this thing was clearly lit up when called in. The reports say that once they were determined not to be explosive one "lit up when taken into a darkened area." In other words, they have a light trigger as one would expect for this kind of device.

I have used sullivan station many times living in boston. The highway bridge is quite high above the station itself. The image could probably be seen at night when lit up, but in daylight hours the chances of recognizing it from the lower deck as anything but a bulky object with wires somewhere where such things quite cleary do not belong is slim to none. People are looking at pictures of it taken in optimal conditions from a few feet away and saying its obviously not a bomb.

Sullivan square is also not a particularly residential neighborhood on the T parkking lot side. Its people going back and forth to the T and highway. That means the people who saw it in the daylight had no reason to have seen it at night. And while people are commenting on "the campaign" having been on for weeks, the "artists" stated that this particular item went up monday night.

Finally, at the risk of repeating myself, this thing wasn't on a wall or something. It was attached to a bridge of the major Boston highway where it crosses over a subway and (iirc) commuter rail line. Another one was found on the Charles Street bridge. We are talking about locations which, if there was a Terrorist's Guide to F-ing Up Boston would have little gold stars on them. The plice acted entirely appropriately in blocking off the area until they knew what was going on. The fact that they aren't psychic isn't something I feel the need to hold against them.

Edit: This thing was also not lying around. It was "attached to a stanchion supporting Interstate 93 and near the train line." This is a location where things are placed, deliberately and illegally.

http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/10903594/detail.html has a timeline of the day from the non-psychic police perspective.

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And Ive seen pictures of the dreaded "unlit Charles St Bridge units" and even when not lit up, the cartoon character was clearly visible on it.

But hey you're right, Boston had to spend a million dollars in police overtime rounding these up and treating them like bombs, because they might have contained clues to the Riddler's next ingenious scheme!

I'm surprised they didn't light up the bat signal too.

The public works folks in Seattle found them on bridges and said "it had a cartoon character on it and clearly wasn't dangerous".

I mean... are you REALLY saying police shouldn't use common sense and treat everything with "wires, electronic components and a power source" as a bomb?

I guess with our history of daring terrorist attacks on bridges using small, sophisticated C-4 explosives disguised as lite brites we should be extra cautious... oh wait, no we shouldn't.

I'm going to try to attach the image here so folks can get a look at this dastardly device.