D&D 5E Survivor Classic Modules: THE SINISTER SECRET OF SALTMARSH WINS!

A1-A4 Scourge of the Slave Lords 19
B1 In Search of the Unknown 17
B2 The Keep on the Borderlands 22
B3 Palace of the Silver Princess 11
B4 The Lost City 20
B5 Horror on the Hill 17
C1 The Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan 22
C2 The Ghost Tower of Inverness 20
D1-D3 Drow 18
EX1-EX2 Dungeonland/Magic Mirror 21
G1-G3 Against the Giants 21
I1 Dwellers of the Forbidden City 24
I2 Tomb of the Lizard King 20
I3-I5 Desert of Desolation 23
I6 Ravenloft 18
L1 The Secret of Bone Hill 15
L2 The Assassin's Knot 15
Q1 Queen of the Demonweb Pits 18
S1 Tomb of Horrors 7
S2 White Plume Mountain 22
S3 Expedition to the Barrier Peaks 18
S4 The Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth 24
T1 Village of Hommlet 21
U1-U3 Saltmarsh Series 20
UK2 Sentinel 18
WG4 Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun 21
X1 Isle of Dread 20
X2 Castle Amber 18

[MENTION=6799753]lowkey13[/MENTION] - I completely fail to understand your dislike for L1 Bone Hill. From a design and playability standpoint* AFAIC it's one of the best modules I've ever seen.

* - I can go into detail if you like, here or in another thread.

Lanefan

A1-A4 Scourge of the Slave Lords 19
B1 In Search of the Unknown 17
B2 The Keep on the Borderlands 22
B3 Palace of the Silver Princess 11
B4 The Lost City 20
B5 Horror on the Hill 17
C1 The Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan 22
C2 The Ghost Tower of Inverness 20
D1-D3 Drow 18
EX1-EX2 Dungeonland/Magic Mirror 21
G1-G3 Against the Giants 21
I1 Dwellers of the Forbidden City 24
I2 Tomb of the Lizard King 20
I3-I5 Desert of Desolation 23
I6 Ravenloft 18 -3 = 15.
L1 The Secret of Bone Hill 15
L2 The Assassin's Knot 15
Q1 Queen of the Demonweb Pits 18
S1 Tomb of Horrors 7
S2 White Plume Mountain 22
S3 Expedition to the Barrier Peaks 18
S4 The Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth 24
T1 Village of Hommlet 21 +1 = 22.
U1-U3 Saltmarsh Series 20
UK2 Sentinel 18
WG4 Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun 21
X1 Isle of Dread 20
X2 Castle Amber 18

*Deleted by user*

*Deleted by user*

lowkey13 said:

You're welcome to go into detail! I love stories!

Click to expand...

Actually, it's nothing...well, almost nothing...to do with stories, and more to do with DM-side design.

But I'm open to your counterargument. Or, at the least, why I should be shooting at L2.

Click to expand...

OK, here goes.

Far too many published dungeon adventures - particularly for low-level characrers, as Bone Hill is - fall into one or more design traps.

One is chokepoints. There's only one way in. Or - far more commonly - there's only one point of access from one level to another. There's no other way to approach a particular area (ignoring teleport effects, and low-level parties usually don't have these) than to go through the chokepoint.

Another is what I call linearity. Everything eventually comes to a dead end. The best analogy is going up a river - no matter which forks you take you'll always eventually reach a dead end and have to go back to a previous fork to try something different. No closed loops. A2 Slavers Stockade is bad for this - if you dissect the map you'll see that much of it is very linear as written unless you-as-DM add in a few extra doors. And again this means that barring teleport effects the party will always first approach a given room or encounter from the same direction. Easy for the DM and the boxed-text writers, not so interesting for the players as it soon becomes obvious you're being funnelled.

A linear or heavily-chokepointed dungeon is by design usually going to play out close to the same every time it is run.

Now take a look at the dungeon/castle part of Bone Hill. There's about 5 or 6 ways in to the complex - some hidden, some obvious - directly accessing every level (I think - going by memory here). Once inside there's several ways to get between the main two levels, and there's closed or close-able loops all over the place both horizontal (on the same level) and vertical (between levels). The characters have options and choices that matter, and that don't just lead to dead ends all the time. There's really no chokepoints, and not much linearity. It's brilliantly done!

The result: I've now played through it twice and DMed it twice, with vastly different results each time due to how the party chose to approach it and what choices they made once inside. To me, that's a sign of a well-designed low-level module.

A bigger and maybe even better example of this type of design is the Judges' Guild module Dark Tower.

Lan-"it took me ages to realize why I liked Bone Hill so much (its subtly brilliant design); and now when I'm designing a dungeon adventure I look to Bone Hill to see if I'm doing it right"-efan

A1-A4 Scourge of the Slave Lords 19
B1 In Search of the Unknown 17
B2 The Keep on the Borderlands 22
B3 Palace of the Silver Princess 11
B4 The Lost City 17 - Thank you Zargon, for making my choice easier this time
B5 Horror on the Hill 17
C1 The Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan 22
C2 The Ghost Tower of Inverness 20
D1-D3 Drow 18
EX1-EX2 Dungeonland/Magic Mirror 21
G1-G3 Against the Giants 21
I1 Dwellers of the Forbidden City 24
I2 Tomb of the Lizard King 20
I3-I5 Desert of Desolation 23
I6 Ravenloft 16 - not the best one here IMO, but lagging a bit due to some CoS hate
L1 The Secret of Bone Hill 15
L2 The Assassin's Knot 15
Q1 Queen of the Demonweb Pits 18
S1 Tomb of Horrors 7
S2 White Plume Mountain 22
S3 Expedition to the Barrier Peaks 18
S4 The Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth 24
T1 Village of Hommlet 22
U1-U3 Saltmarsh Series 20
UK2 Sentinel 18
WG4 Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun 21
X1 Isle of Dread 20
X2 Castle Amber 18

Oh, and [MENTION=6799753]lowkey13[/MENTION] , feel free to downvote L2. It's pretty good, but fairly weak compared to L1 and many on this list.

A1-A4 Scourge of the Slave Lords 19
B1 In Search of the Unknown 17
B2 The Keep on the Borderlands 22
B3 Palace of the Silver Princess 11
B4 The Lost City 17
B5 Horror on the Hill 17
C1 The Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan 22
C2 The Ghost Tower of Inverness 20
D1-D3 Drow 18
EX1-EX2 Dungeonland/Magic Mirror 18 - Alice fan though I am, these just never did it for me
G1-G3 Against the Giants 21
I1 Dwellers of the Forbidden City 24
I2 Tomb of the Lizard King 20
I3-I5 Desert of Desolation 23
I6 Ravenloft 16
L1 The Secret of Bone Hill 16 - Had to, after defending it today
L2 The Assassin's Knot 15
Q1 Queen of the Demonweb Pits 18
S1 Tomb of Horrors 7
S2 White Plume Mountain 22
S3 Expedition to the Barrier Peaks 18
S4 The Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth 24
T1 Village of Hommlet 22
U1-U3 Saltmarsh Series 20
UK2 Sentinel 18
WG4 Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun 21
X1 Isle of Dread 20
X2 Castle Amber 18

A1-A4 Scourge of the Slave Lords 19
B1 In Search of the Unknown 17
B2 The Keep on the Borderlands 22
B3 Palace of the Silver Princess 8
B4 The Lost City 17
B5 Horror on the Hill 17
C1 The Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan 22
C2 The Ghost Tower of Inverness 20
D1-D3 Drow 18
EX1-EX2 Dungeonland/Magic Mirror 18
G1-G3 Against the Giants 21
I1 Dwellers of the Forbidden City 24
I2 Tomb of the Lizard King 20
I3-I5 Desert of Desolation 23
I6 Ravenloft 16
L1 The Secret of Bone Hill 16
L2 The Assassin's Knot 15
Q1 Queen of the Demonweb Pits 18
S1 Tomb of Horrors 8 - Always polarizes opinion - it shouldn't - it's a true classic
S2 White Plume Mountain 22
S3 Expedition to the Barrier Peaks 18
S4 The Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth 24
T1 Village of Hommlet 22
U1-U3 Saltmarsh Series 20
UK2 Sentinel 18
WG4 Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun 21
X1 Isle of Dread 20
X2 Castle Amber 18

A1-A4 Scourge of the Slave Lords 19
B1 In Search of the Unknown 17
B2 The Keep on the Borderlands 22
B3 Palace of the Silver Princess 11
B4 The Lost City 17
B5 Horror on the Hill 17
C1 The Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan 22
C2 The Ghost Tower of Inverness 20
D1-D3 Drow 18
EX1-EX2 Dungeonland/Magic Mirror 18
G1-G3 Against the Giants 21
I1 Dwellers of the Forbidden City 24
I2 Tomb of the Lizard King 20
I3-I5 Desert of Desolation 23
I6 Ravenloft 16
L1 The Secret of Bone Hill 16
L2 The Assassin's Knot 15
Q1 Queen of the Demonweb Pits 18
S1 Tomb of Horrors 7
S2 White Plume Mountain 19
S3 Expedition to the Barrier Peaks 18
S4 The Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth 24
T1 Village of Hommlet 22
U1-U3 Saltmarsh Series 20
UK2 Sentinel 18
WG4 Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun 21
X1 Isle of Dread 20
X2 Castle Amber 19

The fact that quality modules like X4-5 and N1 (especially N1) got voted off so early is ludicrous.