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D&D (2024) Interested in new dragon designs for 5e (5.5e or 6e)?

Yaarel

🇮🇱He-Mage
No. The variable head features go all the way back to primitive indo eauropean religious myth in the last stages is animism. Serpents with weird heads can be found in cave paintings from in areas around the cacausus and in india from around the time the indo europeans were moving through there. Obviously the resolution, so to speak, of said figures is low but the heads already feature things like horns and ears. Details that dont require precision. Its also able to be reconstructed for alternative verification from early germanic and early hindu legends. They bith spwak of very similar beasts and they both got this influence from said indo european myths.
Nevertheless, there is a historical context for the specifically medieval European concept of a dragon, from which the modern fantasy dragon derives.

Most cultures have some kind of a concept of a mythic ‘snake’, speaking generally.

The European ‘dragon’ (Latin Draco) is something that has a specific evolution in a specific historical context, space and time. It derives under the influence of the Roman military traditions in conjunction with the Latin bestiaries that cite Greek traditions about the python.

The European dragon is extremely aggressive BECAUSE this snake archetype conflates Roman warfare and Christian devil.
 
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Yaarel

🇮🇱He-Mage
Compare the ‘evolution’ of the Draco dragon extent in various medieval bestiaries in the Latin language.


IMG-20180103-WA0006.jpg


A reallife image of an African rock python killing a baby impala.



A python killed an elephant! This is the ancient (Greek) version of a modern ‘animal attack’ video. Somebody somewhere witnessed a python kill a (baby?) elephant. A rare and amazing incident and reported it. The idea became an ancient ‘urban legend’ and a virulent ‘meme’. A kind of snake that can even kill elephants!



elephant2.jpg


Some bestiaries mention the python will fall down from a tree on top of an elephant. Most medieval Europeans have never seen a python. Or an elephant. Hopping down from a treetop also encouraged the assumption that this kind of snake might be birdlike, with wings, flying among tree branches, and eaglelike landing to catch its prey.

Above, the birdlike wings are grabbing under the foreleg of the elephant. But the original concept of a snake is clear.

Other bestiaries simply mention the python ‘on the path’ of the elephant, and tangles its feet, to take it down. Other bestiaries mention the python going after a newborn elephant, while the parents defend it.

In the manuscript above, note the wolflike head with ears. By the Medieval Period, the Roman military Draco banner is already firmly implanted in the popular imagination of what a ‘Draco’ looks like. So various kinds of heads are already possible.



These Pan-European bestiary manuscripts were part of the Roman then Holy Roman Empire. The earlier ones are text-only in Latin. But later, the medieval illuminated manuscripts tried to illustrate them with a picture of each animal, ... as best as the artist was able.

The texts of most of these bestiaries interpreted these animals allegorically and religiously. The description for the Draco python entry added an allegory that compared it to the Christian devil. The elephant then is a careless Christian who is unaware of the machinations of the devil. The devil entraps the elephant Christian in sin. Meanwhile, the ‘Draco’ from the Vulgate Latin Bible, is a ‘snake’, a ‘serpent’, apparently flying in the heavens like angels do, a ‘fowl’ of the air, a ‘roaming lion’, a ‘wolf in sheeps clothing’, and so on, conflating various possibilities for what the African python looks like.



elepahnt4.jpg


Note the Draco python above has a lionlike head. Or at least more catlike. The artist has seen a reallife cat. A lion is said to be something like it. The winged body is interpreted as if more birdlike.

Regarding the elephant. Since few have ever seen a reallife elephant, the bestiary manuscript traditions tend to portray the tusks of the elephant growing upward from the lower jaw. This is a guess about which teeth the ‘oliphant horns’ come from. At least this artist has a reasonably accurate understanding of the large ears.



elepahnt6.jpg


This snake has a wolfhead, like the Roman cavalry banner sometimes does.



elephant3.jpg


Note, the above medieval European artist has never actually seen a reallife African elephant nor a reallife African rock python, nor even ever seen a decent bestiary that depicted either of these.

Even so, the head of the snake seems an attempt at lionlike, somewhat like a domestic cat.

Either the elephant is pretty small, or the python is pretty big.



elephant7.jpg


This Draco ‘serpent’ has venom. The venom is painful, burns, and causes redness and inflamation ... like fire.



elepahnt7.jpg


Note the humanlike (?) head. With eyebrows. But the elephants also have eyebrows. Future bestiaries with a human-headed Draco python, have precedents.



elephant7.jpg


The ‘Draco’ python above has a lionlike (?) head. The artist might be splitting the difference between seeing bestiaries with a lionlike head and bestiaries with a wolflike one. So compromised.

Similarly, the artist might have seen an image with a naturalistic python snake, or thought about how snakes dont normally have legs, yet saw a bestiary where the Draco was more birdlike with wings. So compromised. No legs but birdlike.

A respectably accurate elephant − this artist has connections!



elephant5.jpg


This artist has never seen an elephant. But at least everybody knows, this is what a python looks like.
 
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Yaarel

🇮🇱He-Mage
More Draco (plural Dracones) from the Roman cavalry banners.

These two Draco come from Trajans Column from the century 100s.

One Draco has a lionlike head, the other a wolflike head.
draco9.jpg
draco10.jpg




Next is a funerary stele in Britain dating to roughly 200, in Chester, England. A cavalry standard bearer carries a military Draco.
draco11.jpg




During the 200s, this coin depicts the Roman emperor Trajan Decius, probably carrying a Draco.

Dacia_with_draco_on_antoninianus_of_Trajan_Decius%2C_AD_251.jpg





A famous Draco head was discovered in Germany, in Niederbieder, dating to the 200s. The head is made out of copper. This dragon snake head looks more like an earless snake with scales. But it has some kind of crest. Also it has teeth and lacks fangs.
draco1.jpg




Below are Draco from the Arch of Galerius, during the 300s. The heads are unclear, but there are at least four Draco banners waving serpentinely during a military formation..
draco15.jpg




During Post-Classical Period (corresponding to the Byzantine Period, the Migration Period, and so on), such Roman military Draco, are the kind of ‘Draco’ that Europeans have in mind.

When these and later Europeans see the word ‘Draco’ mentioned in ancient texts, such as bestiaries or the Bible, this banner is how they imagine this specific kind of snake to look like.

Texts mention the Draco banner still in use during the 500s, and seems to stop functioning for the Roman and Byzantine militaries during the 600s. Nevertheless, the use of the Draco as a military standard persists elsewhere.



The famous Bayeux Tapestry depicts the Battle of Hastings in year 1066. It is thought to be embroidered in England during the 1000s, and informed by the eyewitness survivors of that battle. (Probably, it was commissioned by Bishop Odo, a half-brother of William the Conquerer.)

Remarkably, the tapestry depicts the ‘Dragon of Wessex’. It is a red Draco wind-sock banner, carried by a military standard bearer.

draco18.jpg


Notice, during the 1000s, this military Draco in Britain portrays this red snake as having forelegs. The animal head is ambiguous: it might be lion-like or wolf-like.

This is the kind of ‘Draco’ that illustrates many bestiaries concerning the python, called a Draco in Latin.



The Draco military banner remained in use. It defined what medieval Europeans knew about what the reallife Draco looked like − namely the python.
 
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One of the difficulties is a weird D&D 5e-ism. Where a creature can only be one single creature type.

For example, 5e says in Xanathars, an Eladrin can either be a ‘humanoid’ or a ‘fey’, but cannot be both. A 5e Eladrin who is a ‘fey humanoid’, both, is impossible.

Likewise, the Cuatl can ONLY be either ‘celestial’ or ‘dragon’, but not both at the same time.



Personally, I find this false-dicotomy design unhelpful.



For example, the Fairy Dragon should be both a ‘fey dragon’, not just a dragon.

Using multiple descriptors when they apply narratively would be helpful and make it easier to represent the various kinds of dragons.
Wow. Didnt know about that rule. Thats a HORRIBLE oversight.
 


Wow. Didnt know about that rule. Thats a HORRIBLE oversight.
I should point out that "elf" is a subtype and subtypes can apply to different types, so you can be a fey elf, just not a fey humanoid. There are fey elves in MToF's and celestial elves (and dwarves) are mentioned in the DMG. Maybe someone can explain why "fey humanoid" is better than "fey elf", because I don't see it, especially since you can technically be fey "any race."

There is a dearth of subtypes primarily related to dragons and celestials, but you could easily make some. So if you made a dragonkin subtype, then Couatl could be celestial dragonkin. Or you could decide the subtype lamasu covers any winged beast-like celestial, and then Couatl could be dragon lamasu.
 

@MechaTarrasque
elf is not a subtype in the game. its a race. with diluted fey ancestry. you could basically say they are comparable to aasimar but fey background not celestial.

now, if you mean mythologically, it could be said elf is a lot of things. subtype and race would both be valid examples, and several others. but unless i completely lost my memory or unless 5e has made this a deviation from earliers e's without me noticing, no. not a subtype in the game rules.
 

dave2008

Legend
@MechaTarrasque
elf is not a subtype in the game. its a race. with diluted fey ancestry. you could basically say they are comparable to aasimar but fey background not celestial.

now, if you mean mythologically, it could be said elf is a lot of things. subtype and race would both be valid examples, and several others. but unless i completely lost my memory or unless 5e has made this a deviation from earliers e's without me noticing, no. not a subtype in the game rules.
Actually, it looks like @MechaTarrasque is correct. See the eladrin from MToF:
Fey_elf.JPG


vs. the drow in the MM:
Humanoid_elf.JPG


And of course these are actually tags (from the MM):
Tags.JPG
 
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dave2008

Legend
I think its just the way they annotate the "race" of the "humanoid"
That is basically what he said, of course the MM clearly indicates these are “tags” and that a monster can have one or more tags, so it is not just race. Off the top of my head there are the following tags:
Elf, human, devil, demon, orc.
I would assume all the “races” would be tags. Any others?
 

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