D&D 5E Am I no longer WoTC's target audience?

Dark Sun has still a great future. It only needs the right videogame or cartoon serie. With a fandom enough big the metaplot will call continue. But DS has got a very special look. If WotC wanted, it could publish mini-modules for a benefical campaign to repopulate forests, or bioregeneration cultures in polluted industrial zones. But psionic power need a lot of work for game designers. I have suggested some times in the past a partneship with Dreamscarred Press or hiring its staff as subsidiaries. Maybe they will return in this or the next year.

And I have said they are working in Ravenloft. This isn't forgotten at all. They know it is a popular among who want a more adult tone.

My bet is Greyhawk and Ravenloft will be the videogames not set in FR.
 

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Reynard

Legend
Adding to this, I think we all know that WotC is fully capable of releasing a greater number of books per year. Their current strategy starves consumers for just long enough that everyone buys the next book, for fear of missing out on what might be the only release they enjoy that year. This has certainly been the case for me, as I purchased Xanathar's, Volo's, Mordenkainen's, TFtYP, and GoS not because they were products which I examined deeply before purchase, but because, aside from adventures, they might be the only source of 5E crunch I am able to acquire for quite a while.

I guess I cannot relate to the idea of being so addicted to official content and the shiny new that I will buy absolutely anything WotC decides to put out. There is no lack of 5E material available if you don't arbitrarily restrict yourself to official WotC hardcovers. And there is a literally limitless amount of 5E material inside you and your players' heads and hearts.

But, by all means continue to reward WotC for publishing books you don't want or need.
 

I don't think a setting book, alone, can teach that late 70s, early 80s zeitgeist.

This is definitely true. Any setting that "comes back" is going to have to be successful with a new audience, who not the same sort of audience, nor have the same sort of values or interests as the 70s or 80s or 90s or whenever. We've already seen countless games try to "bring back the '70s" or "bring back the '80s" with the so-called Old-School Revolution, and the reality is, they got a lot of the aesthetic, but they didn't really quite get the vibe. They're less successful at replicating at vibe than, say, modern synth-pop is at getting that, different, '80s vibe (perhaps it's simply easier with synth-pop? Or perhaps it's just that more people are trying).

I think the easiest success would be Dark Sun - it's more relevant now, with environmental destruction, and the rise of populist dictators, and so on, than it was in 1992. It'd be easy to update and a lot of what's going on by default in the original box set is immediately engaging still.

Whereas something like Greyhawk, we've discussed this before I think, but it'd be a real challenge - you'd need to I think exaggerate the traits of Greyhawk and really play up some of the wild and wacky stuff, and I I think it still wouldn't be an easy win like Dark Sun.

Planescape and Spelljammer would require more effort than Dark Sun, but both have the big benefit, for 5E's general sales strategy, of being total kitchen sinks where absolutely any race, class, background, magic item or whatever can potentially fit in, whereas Dark Sun is kind of the opposite (I think that and WotC being unable to get their act together on Psionics will continue to ensure we don't see this in 5E).
 

generic

On that metempsychosis tweak
I guess I cannot relate to the idea of being so addicted to official content and the shiny new that I will buy absolutely anything WotC decides to put out. There is no lack of 5E material available if you don't arbitrarily restrict yourself to official WotC hardcovers. And there is a literally limitless amount of 5E material inside you and your players' heads and hearts.

But, by all means continue to reward WotC for publishing books you don't want or need.
It's not that I need "shiny new", and I do use homebrew and 3pp content quite often. However, there are a group of people called AL Players, who cannot use 3pp content, and others, like me, who love homebrewing, but would also like a greater library of official options.

So, you can cut the dismissive attitude off at the neck.
 

One Hundred and One Dalmatians
Sword in the Stone
Jungle Book
Robin Hood
Tron (not cartoon)
Who Framed Roger Rabbit (not cartoon)
The Little Mermaid
Have you forgotten Taron and the Black Cauldron, Basil the superdetective, the rescuers or the aristocats, the black hole, dragon slayer... The other titles are classic, but those weren't Disney Company's best years.

Roger Rabbit was a true blockbuster in its time.
 

Oofta

Legend
It isn't, but that's not a great curve to continue, and to continually reinforce by starving consumers. WotC controls the TTRPG market. If WotC falls, the market is devastated. They have the power to attempt to make small market changes over time.

So what's the point between "starvation" and "saturation"?

Because I have no clue. To say we're "starved" for content is a bit hyperbolic. All of which, of course is just my opinion and carries absolutely no weight whatsoever. Just like everyone else on this forum. :p
 

generic

On that metempsychosis tweak
So what's the point between "starvation" and "saturation"?

Because I have no clue. To say we're "starved" for content is a bit hyperbolic. All of which, of course is just my opinion and carries absolutely no weight whatsoever. Just like everyone else on this forum. :p
The exact point where it hits the proverbial 'sweet spot'? I don't know. I really have no way of knowing.

My speculative idea? WotC could release at least 3 more books, two of them crunch, before experiencing any drop-off, possibly more.
 

So what's the point between "starvation" and "saturation"?

Because I have no clue. To say we're "starved" for content is a bit hyperbolic. All of which, of course is just my opinion and carries absolutely no weight whatsoever. Just like everyone else on this forum. :p

Depends what you call content. We seem to have an abundance of one type of content (adventures), but lack other types (settings, mechanics). I think a lot of people here just want to see more balance in the type of releases.
 

Mistwell

Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)
Have you forgotten Taron and the Black Cauldron, Basil the superdetective, the rescuers or the aristocats, the black hole, dragon slayer... The other titles are classic, but those weren't Disney Company's best years.

Roger Rabbit was a true blockbuster in its time.

You asked, "Can you mention any Disney cartoon movie since "Sleeping Beauty" until "Beauty & Beast"? "

I did that.
 

Parmandur

Book-Friend
I feel like you're getting a bit silly here on two points.

First off, I don't think a two or four-year-old looking at a D&D book "generates future players" in any meaningful way. Otherwise I'd have been a zoologist, paleontologist, or pilot or something. And indeed pretty much everyone looks at tons of cool-looking books which have zero impact on their future life choices at that age. Definitely the most influential period for artwork on my hobbies and interests in later life was significantly later than that, at eight plus. I'm sure that varies, but I very much doubt it's normal to get into a hobby because you were exposed to it aged two. Otherwise model railways would still be big.

Second off, I think the idea of two or four-year-olds "getting a kick out of" D&D books is er, questionable. D&D often features some pretty terrifying and/or violent imagery. I know that, as a kid, even a fair bit older than that, the imagery from some stuff that seems utterly innocuous as an an adult, genuinely gave me nightmares, and I was not a "sensitive" kid - quite the opposite. The Monster Manual in particular I would question giving to a kid under about seven or eight. Some kids will be immune, but some kids watch Alien aged eight and don't blink an eyelid, so that doesn't mean much. I don't think WotC are, nor should be targeting "two to four-year-olds" in their main book line.



Sorry, no.

This is not a reasonable approach. It's a facile one that doesn't hold up to scrutiny. WotC certainly attempt to find out about the market, but how successful they are, what their methods are, and how much they actually know is massively open to question. It's easy to be snooty and dismissive towards people who are suggesting WotC are perhaps making a mistake, to take a high-handed and contemptuous position of "Oh look, an internet-man thinks he knows what might work! How tremendously funny!", which is basically what you're doing, even if you don't mean to.

But this is WotC. They are deeply fallible. This is the company that came out with 4E, and more importantly, 4E's market strategy and product approach. You think they did less market research then? You think they were less competent then? You think companies continually get better at this? (hint: they do not) You think the same company that had flops with so much 3E and 4E material is always making good choices? You can't run with "Companies always know better!" whilst there's clear evidence of said companies making serious mistakes. 5E exists because WotC messed up with 4E.

5E's success seems to me to be very simple - they're essentially starving the market rather than flooding it, thus absolutely anything they release at all is almost certain to sell well. It's a good strategy for high profit with low financial investment, there's no denying that. But that doesn't mean it's actually what would be most profitable or most successful for D&D overall, and there's little to no evidence WotC is even considering other strategies. All the evidence we have, I would suggest, is that WotC, very early in 5E, before release even, decided on an extremely conservative sales strategy for 5E, sticking to a small number of products which were sure things, and the odd opportunistic media tie-in (nothing wrong with that!), rather than going for a more maximal strategy. I mean, do you not see how cautious they were even with Eberron? I don't think they really want to sell new versions of extant settings. I'm less sure, though, that that's because they won't sell - I suspect it's more out of a wild abundance of caution and an utter, stark terror of flooding the market.

The two and four year old examples are about my own kids, who loooooooove the Monster Manual to death. Beyond the main big books, WotC does put out kids books, which my children also get a huge kick out if. Point is, thin black and white books don't have the same appeal, and aren't the good business sense that a far beautiful book is at this point. The thin, low art market has the Internet now.
 

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