D&D 5E Climbing a tower rules 5e

6ENow! said:

It depends on getting into the tower is part of the challenge--or are just what is inside the tower the challenge?

If figuring out how to get in is part of the challenge (as it seems in the OP) then it is a matter of interest how they get in.

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And they overcame that challenge by having the foresight to bring a rope and grappling hook.

iserith said:

I commend you on your use of DMG page 237 which too few people read. However, you're ignoring the section on Strength (Athletics) checks in PHB Ch. 7 and Climbing rules in PHB Ch. 8 (the latter of which Flamestrike just quoted). Specific beats general and you've quoted nothing but general. Please go take a look at those other sections.

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Ah, your level of condescension is increasing! Very interesting...

Yeah, look at it again. The DM has the option to impose a check if the situation is difficult or hazardous. Hopefully, your game doesn't limit it to only the two examples provided by the text. Making an 80-foot climb (especially carrying armor, weapons, and/or gear) is not simple IMO, so I am perfectly within my right as DM to call for a check, even under the specific rule you seem to love so much.

Here, just for you, you can look at it and love it over and over again:

Similarly, gaining any distance while climbing to a great height might require a successful Strength (Athletics) check as well.

There, I am quoting part of your specific section, offering another case where the DM, at their option, could call for a check.

EDIT: FWIW, I've said you are perfectly right to NOT ask for a check when as DM you don't feel it warrants one, but don't tell me I'm wrong because I feel it should require a check.

6ENow! said:

Ah, your level of condescension is increasing! Very interesting...

Yeah, look at it again. The DM has the option to impose a check if the situation is difficult or hazardous. Hopefully, your game doesn't limit it to only the two examples provided by the text. Making an 80-foot climb (especially carrying armor, weapons, and/or gear) is not simple IMO, so I am perfectly within my right as DM to call for a check, even under the specific rule you seem to love so much.

Here, just for you, you can look at it and love it over and over again:
View attachment 132369
Similarly, gaining any distance while climbing to a great height might require a successful Strength (Athletics) check as well.

There, I am quoting part of your specific section, offering another case where the DM, at their option, could call for a check.

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There is no condescension here. It's usually me quoting DMG 237 to others who struggle with adjudication. So I'm glad to see it being referenced. I'm also glad you took the time to look at PHB Ch. 8 which Flamestrike also quoted.

What you've highlighted only proves what I've been saying since my very first post in this thread (see also Chapter 7): The climb as described by the OP contained no complication like those in Chapters 7 or Chapter 8. Thus, there is no roll. A DM calling for a roll here is not doing so based on the specific rules for climbing. Which is fine, if that's what the DM and his or her group go in for. But let's not pretend it's something other than what it is.

6ENow! said:

EDIT: FWIW, I've said you are perfectly right to NOT ask for a check when as DM you don't feel it warrants one, but don't tell me I'm wrong because I feel it should require a check.

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I'm not telling you that you are wrong. I'm telling you that your ruling doesn't account for the specific rules for climbing. If you doing that bothers you, that's on you.

6ENow! said:

Is the task so easy, free of conflict and stress that there is no chance of failure? (You = Yes, Me = No)

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Dude. It's climbing a rope with a wall to brace on. Its DC 0 in 3.5 and Pathfinder and SWSE.

In AD&D in the DSG, your base chance to climb a rope + wall combo at 1st level varies (it was impossible in Plate, armor incurred penalties percent but it was otherwise 80 percent (for non Thieves, who did so automatically).



If you failed the check, you simply could not climb that wall ever (but you did not fall).

In 2E, your the base climb skill for everyone (other than Thieves) was 40 percent, with a +55 percent bonus for climbing a rope and wall. This base 95 percent chance was penalized by armor worn and encumbrance:



In 5e, the rules for climbing state that you ONLY require a Strength (Athletics) check on a particularly slippery surface, or once with no handholds - which a knotted rope is not.

There is no check to climb a rope in 5E. Barring any complicating factors (a slippery rope, a particularly long climb, being rushed etc) it is automatic.

6ENow! said:

Similarly, climbing to a great height might require a successful Strength (Athletics) check as well.

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If you consider an 80' rope climb a 'great height' then sure.

We're assuming generally fit and healthy professional adventurers here, who generally only ever need to check if climbing a slippery vertical surface, or a wall with no handholds (and without a rope).

Climbing 80' up a knotted rope, unless rushed, is DC 'dont bother rolling, you succeed'.

You’re both correct. The dm gets to decide whether a situation calls for a check. You’re just talking in circles.

deciding an 80 foot fall would cause enough stress to warrant a check seems reasonable to me.

deciding an 80 foot climb is just a way to frame the scene and requires no check also seems reasonable to me.

iserith said:

I'm also glad you took the time to look at PHB Ch. 8 which Flamestrike also quoted.

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LOL, any reference to Flamestrike is wasted here--I ignored that user a while ago. Sorry if overlooking their posts caused any issue, but I don't see them. shrug

iserith said:

The climb as described by the OP contained no complication like those in Chapters 7 or Chapter 8. Thus, there is no roll.

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Well, that is your opinion. I'm trying to make certain you don't confuse others so they know they have options supported by the rules as well.

When @Nebulous specifically asks:

Nebulous said:

Just to clarify then, gravity and height don't count as difficulty?

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And you respond with this:

iserith said:

So in D&D 5e unless there's an actual complication to the climbing, the PCs just succeed. So if you want there to be something to overcome here, you need to establish it when describing the environment: dangerous razorvine growing up the tower's walls, strong winds that cause the PCs to sway precariously while climbing, or someone pouring pots of boiling oil or water on the PCs. Stuff like that.

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And then this:

iserith said:

No. See Chapter 8 for "Special Types of Movement." Then also see Chapter 7 under Strength (Athletics) checks. If you want there to be a complication, you have to establish one. (And then see what the PCs do to overcome it before you decide whether there's a check and, if there's a check, what the DC is.)

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You are basically arguing that without a stressful complication, ANY distance can be climbed by ANY PC with no checks whatsoever. Sorry, but that is patently ridiculous IMO.

iserith said:

A DM calling for a roll here is not doing so based on the specific rules for climbing.

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Sure it is. Again, those two examples are just that--examples. If swimming any great distance might require a check, so could climbing any distance the DM feels is "great" to them. The specific rules support my position.

So, I am hardly pretending it's something other than what it is.

iserith said:

I'm telling you that your ruling doesn't account for the specific rules for climbing.

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I've just shown (repeatedly now) that is supports me as much as you.

And frankly,

iserith said:

If you doing that bothers you, that's on you.

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TaranTheWanderer said:

You’re both correct. The dm gets to decide whether a situation calls for a check. You’re just talking in circles.

deciding an 80 foot fall would cause enough stress to warrant a check seems reasonable to me.

deciding an 80 foot climb is just a way to frame the scene that requires no check also seems reasonable to me.

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I agree and have stated as such, but @iserith seems to want to insist their ruling is better supported by the rules due to specific rules on climbing movement over general ability checks--but even then I've shown how climbing a great distance IS supported by the specific rules as well...

I guess they just like to argue. shrug I'm done with it.

Hopefully @Nebulous will read what I've said and understand if they want to call for a check, it is supported by all the rules as well.

@Nebulous
For the record, it’s super easy to be an arm chair dm and post advice on a forum. (I think I’m pretty much an arm chair dm) It’s different making decisions on the fly in-game. There is no right adjudication. In hindsight, you might decide that you could have run it differently or better but I think lots of people feel that way. Hindsight is 20/20.

6ENow! said:

I agree and have stated as such, but @iserith seems to want to insist their ruling is better supported by the rules due to specific rules on climbing movement over general ability checks--but even then I've shown how climbing a great distance IS supported by the specific rules as well...

I guess they just like to argue. shrug I'm done with it.

Hopefully @Nebulous will read what I've said and understand if they want to call for a check, it is supported by all the rules as well.

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Yes, I am arguing that the rules make no distinction as to distance climbed with regard to calling for an ability check. Because that is actually true. You referencing the rules for swimming a great distance, which is a different task, makes very little sense and looks like post-hoc reasoning to me.

If I'm going to present a challenge where the PCs have to climb a great distance, then it's simply a matter of establishing something like howling winds that creates a difficult situation during the climb. Now I get to call for a check in accordance with the rules (provided the players don't describe some means by which they can overcome that complication).