D&D 5E Is 5e's Success Actually Bad for Other Games?

Retreater

Legend
Speaking from the experience of my groups, I just had two leave OSR games to return to 5e because of familiarity, a "middle ground" approach, and ease of finding resources (in person, online). They have resisted trying other systems (Cthulhu, Savage Worlds, Pathfinder 1 or 2), because 5e does everything they want it to do.
Do you think 5e is so successful that it actually takes away players from other systems?
 

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Fanaelialae

Legend
Speaking from the experience of my groups, I just had two leave OSR games to return to 5e because of familiarity, a "middle ground" approach, and ease of finding resources (in person, online). They have resisted trying other systems (Cthulhu, Savage Worlds, Pathfinder 1 or 2), because 5e does everything they want it to do.
Do you think 5e is so successful that it actually takes away players from other systems?
I doubt it. While newer players likely will gravitate to a game like 5e initially, based on what I've seen 5e has drawn in a significant number of players.

Over time, some of those players will invariably find that their tastes differ from 5e and are better served by some other game. A game pulling in more people to TTRPGs is good for all the games on the hobby, at least in the long term.

YMMV
 

Snarf Zagyg

Notorious Liquefactionist
Do you think 5e is so successful that it actually takes away players from other systems?

Short answer:
No. The only destructive thing thing about 5e is the continued inclusion of Bards and the Soulless, Dead-eyed Elves.

Long Answer:
No. This falls under "A rising tide lifts all ships." It has always been the case that D&D (and D&D variants, like PF) have been the 800 pound gorilla in the TTRPG market. Arguments can be made as to whether this is good or bad in terms of introducing players to the hobby. But the following two things are true:
1. There will always be some contingent of people that will continue to play D&D, say that D&D is all they need, etc.
2. There will always be a contingent of people that will grow dissatisfied with D&D over time, and will branch out to other games.

The massive success of 5e has brought all sorts of new players to the hobby. Some will fall away, but many will stay, and some of those many will be playing alternate games- players that would not have been in the hobby to begin with.

The success of D&D right now is providing a whole new generation of TTRPG players, many of them will end up playing other games as well. It's a good thing.

EDIT: Kinja'd by @Fanaelialae !
 

Speaking from the experience of my groups, I just had two leave OSR games to return to 5e because of familiarity, a "middle ground" approach, and ease of finding resources (in person, online). They have resisted trying other systems (Cthulhu, Savage Worlds, Pathfinder 1 or 2), because 5e does everything they want it to do.
Do you think 5e is so successful that it actually takes away players from other systems?
Nope, not at all. Some people just d don't want or need the rules for 6 different game systems crammed into their head, especially if they're happy with one.
 

Mort

Legend
Supporter
I doubt it. While newer players likely will gravitate to a game like 5e initially, based on what I've seen 5e has drawn in a significant number of players.

Over time, some of those players will invariably find that their tastes differ from 5e and are better served by some other game. A game pulling in more people to TTRPGs is good for all the games on the hobby, at least in the long term.

YMMV

I've generally held this view and want to agree but :

My best friend lives in LA and he has been absolutely dumbfounded by how difficult it is to get players for a non 5e or pathfinder game.

Want players for a 5e or pathfinder game? You practically just have to throw a rock in any direction and you'll attract enough players for a game.

Want a different game (savage worlds, dark heresy, Palladium, whatever)? No one seems to want to even give them a shot. And he's tried.
 

Nope, not at all. Some people just d don't want or need the rules for 6 different game systems crammed into their head, especially if they're happy with one.
I mean, the fact that this mentality even exists is exactly why D&D, at least in the short term, is bad for the rest of the industry. You don't really see this issue with board games, and neither in video games aside from the most dedicated Skyrim modders.

D&D tends to be peoples' first TTRPG due to its already existing brand size; it's the first TTRPG most people would come across by word of mouth or by Internet searching. But it doesn't stop there. The game has an extremely strong brand identity, it has its own media ecosystem, and it has a dedicated fandom that in its current state is largely divorced from the rest of the TTRPG hobby. D&D isn't so much a gateway game as it is a trap; new players who come into TTRPGs through D&D are at risk of getting stuck there and never expanding their horizons, because both D&D's passive market dominance and active marketing efforts cultivate the false idea that "D&D is all you need", ranging from simple apathy towards other games, to active - and sometimes even belligerent brand loyalty. The dragon game swallows up and hoards all the players and resources; and the rest of the market, even the Tier 2 studios, are left to fight over scraps.
 

Fanaelialae

Legend
I've generally held this view and want to agree but :

My best friend lives in LA and he has been absolutely dumbfounded by how difficult it is to get players for a non 5e or pathfinder game.

Want players for a 5e or pathfinder game? You practically just have to throw a rock in any direction and you'll attract enough players for a game.

Want a different game (savage worlds, dark heresy, Palladium, whatever)? No one seems to want to even give them a shot. And he's tried.
Sure, but let's imagine that 5e never existed. Would your friend easily be finding groups for Dungeon World or Burning Wheel (or whatever)?

I'm guessing no. You'd just be posting about how difficult it is for your friend to get players for a non 3e/4e or PF game. Additionally, the hobby would likely be a lot smaller than it currently is, so the odds of finding a player who does want to try those other games would likely be even less.

YMMV
 

Parmandur

Book-Friend
I've generally held this view and want to agree but :

My best friend lives in LA and he has been absolutely dumbfounded by how difficult it is to get players for a non 5e or pathfinder game.

Want players for a 5e or pathfinder game? You practically just have to throw a rock in any direction and you'll attract enough players for a game.

Want a different game (savage worlds, dark heresy, Palladium, whatever)? No one seems to want to even give them a shot. And he's tried.
To be honest, that would probably be the same or worse if 5E was not a success.
 

Parmandur

Book-Friend
I mean, the fact that this mentality even exists is exactly why D&D, at least in the short term, is bad for the rest of the industry. You don't really see this issue with board games, and neither in video games aside from the most dedicated Skyrim modders.

D&D tends to be peoples' first TTRPG due to its already existing brand size; it's the first TTRPG most people would come across by word of mouth or by Internet searching. But it doesn't stop there. The game has an extremely strong brand identity, it has its own media ecosystem, and it has a dedicated fandom that in its current state is largely divorced from the rest of the TTRPG hobby. D&D isn't so much a gateway game as it is a trap; new players who come into TTRPGs through D&D are at risk of getting stuck there and never expanding their horizons, because both D&D's passive market dominance and active marketing efforts cultivate the false idea that "D&D is all you need", ranging from simple apathy towards other games, to active - and sometimes even belligerent brand loyalty. The dragon game swallows up and hoards all the players and resources; and the rest of the market, even the Tier 2 studios, are left to fight over scraps.
That apathy wouldn't go away if 5E weren't present, though: just because people like something doesn't mean that they would like other things if it went away.
 


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