D&D 5E D&D Beyond Cancels Competition

sevenbastard · Jul 31, 2021

Mistwell said:
The thing about WOTC claiming to retain the rights to that artwork once submitted is...they have never in the history of the company USED the work of those who don't win the contest. And they never would use it. They never even look at it again, beyond that contest.

The reason they claim that right is so that, if some day their own artists happen to create something similar to something you submitted one time, you cannot sue them over that.

That's why it's done this way. Not so they can swipe your stuff without paying for it - but so they have a solid defense against anyone in the future suing them for creating something very similar to what was submitted in a contest. Because even if that similar thing is created purely by coincidence, people will sue over it if they had submitted something similar before.

This is also why you don't submit surprise scripts in Hollywood and have to go through some sort of agency go-between. So that the ability to avoid a future lawsuit over creating something similar is avoided.

This makes sense.

But sometimes it's hard to tell if the company is doing it because they are Lawful Neutral or because they are Lawful Evil.

Maxperson · Jul 31, 2021

DEFCON 1 said:
Heh...

"Wow, those uppity wimmens! We made them equal to us men, but now they want to VOTE too?!? What's with all that whining and complaining?!?"

Wow. A Strawman of epic proportions there. So bad in fact that you don't deserve a response other that to be called out on it.

It's also a False Equivalence. Women complaining about not having the same rights(very valid complaint) is not the same as people complaining about contest prizes.

Mirtek · Jul 31, 2021

BookTenTiger said:
Now that the contest is canceled, artists can still...
1) submit work to be paid by companies, or
2) post their work online for free

Nothing has been lost, other than the chance for one or two artists to get free digital stuff.

This kind of contest doesn't help artists. It rewards a winner, and essentially steals from everyone else.

There are fun, community-oriented contests companies can run. This just wasn't one of them.

1) 99% of layman who'd enter such contest could not.

It's not even work for them, probably many have never created art before such a contest and will never do after such a contest. They not even artists in their own view. I certainly don't consider myself an athlete because I once threw some baseballs at some cans at a fair

BookTenTiger · Jul 31, 2021

Mirtek said:
The time and labout you want to put into your entry is entirely up to you. You could enter with a pencil scratch smeared on a piece of paper and scanned in 2 minutes. You'll not be very likely to win anything, but you'd made an entry

Easy enough: If you belief your art if too valuable for such a kind of contest: don't enter. Don't ruin it for those who don't care about their art and want to enter this kind of contest

Here's another example. Let me know what you think of this:

Let's say I'm putting on a Jazz Festival. I put out a contest to design the official posters. How cool, your art could get featured on this year's poster!

I get 1,000 entries, maybe 20 good ones, and I choose a winner. That winner gets their work on the poster and some free Jazz Fest tickets.

But now I have 19 more designs I get to use for the next 19 years! And I don't have to pay anyone for those.

So this kind of contest takes away the need for companies to hire artists. It may not seem like it in the moment, but it is harmful to the community of artists for hire.

Backcountry164 · Jul 31, 2021

Dioltach said:
From DDB's second quote:

I'm confused. Isn't this what a contest is all about?

You must be like me, old enough to have never received a participation trophy as a child...

DEFCON 1 · Jul 31, 2021

Maxperson said:
Wow. A Strawman of epic proportions there. So bad in fact that you don't deserve a response other that to be called out on it.

It's also a False Equivalence. Women complaining about not having the same rights(very valid complaint) is not the same as people complaining about contest prizes.

It is the same, other than a matter of scale.

You are suggesting that any negative feedback is complaining (and thus has a negative connotation and opinion connected to it.) Thus the person giving the feedback is in the wrong and maintaining the status quo is the positive. My joke just extends your suggestion to its ultimate level.

And mayhaps you are suggesting I don't deserve a response because you actually can't think of one that upholds your position?

DEFCON 1 · Jul 31, 2021

Mirtek said:
The time and labout you want to put into your entry is entirely up to you. You could enter with a pencil scratch smeared on a piece of paper and scanned in 2 minutes. You'll not be very likely to win anything, but you'd made an entry

Easy enough: If you belief your art if too valuable for such a kind of contest: don't enter. Don't ruin it for those who don't care about their art and want to enter this kind of contest

And it wasn't the people who gave the negative feedback that "ruined" it... it was the company itself for choosing to pull the contest.

D&D Beyond could have easily ignored the feedback if they felt they were in the right. But the feedback made them discover that perhaps they weren't. Thus if you want to get mad at anyone, get mad at them for making a contest and then cancelling it.

Whizbang Dustyboots · Jul 31, 2021

WotC doesn't want to use your DMs Challenge traps and D&D Beyond didn't have any real intention of using non-winning entries.

That language -- which appears in contests all over -- is to protect them from someone saying "hey, I created a red doohickey for your contest, five years later, you also created a red doohickey, it's time to sue." (It's also why many companies and creators flat-out refuse to look at anything people create outside of a professional context, so they won't open themselves up to these frivolous lawsuits.)

They will not be running contests without language like this, because their lawyers and insurers won't let them.

This has been explained a bunch of times.

But hey, I guess a world without these contests is better somehow.

BookTenTiger · Jul 31, 2021

Whizbang Dustyboots said:
But hey, I guess a world without these contests is better somehow.

In my opinion, and according to all those articles I linked to earlier, YES.

There's nothing wrong with a contest. But contests for digital art have a history of being harmful to the broader community of professional digital artists.

Morrus · Jul 31, 2021

So, the reason why this is often considered unethical is because upcoming artists struggling to find work can feel this is their only way in — to work for a rich company who uses their labour without paying them.

Sure, we can casually say “so don’t enter”. I mean, why don’t sweatshop workers just not take that job? Just don’t take it, right?

It’s a misunderstanding of the power relationships in the world. A company could easily say “if we use your work, we’ll pay you”. The cost would even be inconsequential to them. Some companies do do that.

Making a living as an artist is hard. Our industry consistently undervalues the labour of creators, and normalises exploitation.

The least we can do is pay for the work we use.

D&D 5E D&D Beyond Cancels Competition

sevenbastard

Hero

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus

Mirtek

Hero

BookTenTiger

He / Him

Backcountry164

Explorer

DEFCON 1

Legend

DEFCON 1

Legend

Whizbang Dustyboots

Gnometown Hero

BookTenTiger

He / Him

Morrus

Well, that was fun

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