D&D General If faith in yourself is enough to get power, do we need Wizards and Warlocks etc?

DarkCrisis said:

So, a divine caster like a Cleric, Paladin, Druid etc don't need any actual divine link to power and can just use "The power of my inner belief )or love or friendship or self respect etc) to gain divine powers.

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Sure, okay. Let's work with that.

DarkCrisis said:

So why would a Warlock ever make a deal with Cthulu or a Fey Princess?

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Some possible reasons:
1) The person doesn't have inner belief such that they can access divine powers.
2) There are other powers out there, that are not accessible via inner belief itself, and the character wants them, rather than the divine power.

Another, more metaphysical approach is that, in fact, everyone is already accessing power via that inner belief. All the trappings are merely the frameworks that support that belief. The wizard believes magical power comes from study. The warlock believes that power comes from their patron, and so on.

Snarf Zagyg said:

What are you doing at the mirror?

.....casting a spell.

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I straight up thought of using this instead of Scott Pilgrim.

Well for my world, only those with incredibly strong faith can connect to the divine magic of their chosen deity, pantheon, or themed grouping of deities. Only great champions or very high ranking priest of the various faiths tend to have cleric levels.

On top of that, clerics only have access to certain types of spells through their gods (the clerics’s divine spell list and subclass spells). Those who follow the clerical path are more interesting in upholding the divine doctrines of their gods, or spreading said doctrine. But those that wish to follow a deity more practically might take up a different tradition to do so. Clerics that follow and spread the word of Hepsue would be Forge Clerics, but a faithful that wants to further his personal devotion to the God of Smithing and Artificery without dealing with the temples or more religious folk would most likely become an Artificer instead.

Basically, clerics are the truly faithful that wish to spread and exemplify that faith outwardly and protect that faith, while those who are more interested in a more personally sense of revelry would more likely take up a trade or tradition that honors that deity. It’s not a strict rule but that’s how I see it.

… Some days it don't come easy
Some days it don't come hard
Some days it don't come at all
And these are the days that never end
… Some nights you're breathing fire
Some nights you're carved in ice
Some nights you're like nothing I've ever
Seen before or will again
… Maybe I'm crazy, but it's crazy and it's true
I know you can saving throw me, no-one else can saving throw me now but you
… As long as the wheels are turning
As long as the bays are burning
As long as your dreams are coming true
You'd better believe it
… I would do anything for spells
I know it's true and that's a fact
I would do anything for spells
And there'll never be no turning back
… But I'll never do it better than I do it with you
So long, so long
And I would do anything for spells
Oh, I would do anything for spells
I would do anything for spells but I won't do that
I won't do that
… I would do anything for spells
Anything you've been dreaming of, but I just won't do that
I would do anything for spells
Anything you've been dreaming of, but I just won't do that
… I would do anything for spells
Anything you've been dreaming of, but I just won't do that
I would do anything for spells
… But I'll never stop dreaming of you
Every night of my life, no way
But I would do anything for spells
But I won't do that
Oh, I won't do that
… Will you raise me up? Will you help me down?
Will you get me right out of this godforsaken town?
Can you make it all a little less cold?
… I can do that
I can do that
… Will you hold me sacred? Will you hold me tight?
Can you colour spray my life, I'm so sick of black and white?
Can you make it all a little less cold?
… I can do that
Oh I can do that
… Will you make me some magic with your own two hands?
Can you build an emerald city with these grains of sand?
Can you give me something I can take home?
… I can do that
I can do that
… Will you cater to every fantasy I will?
Will you hose me down with holy water, if I get too evil?
Will you take me places I've never known?
… I can do that
Oh, I can do that
… After a while you'll forget everything
It was a brief interlude and a midsummer night's fling
And you'll see that it's time to move on
No, I won't do that
I won't do that
… I know the territory, I've been around
It'll all turn to dust and we'll all fall down
Sooner or later you'll be screwing around
… I won't do that
No, I won't do
… Anything for spells
Oh, I would do anything for spells
I would do anything for spells
But I won't do that
No, I won't do that

Umbran said:

Sure, okay. Let's work with that.



Some possible reasons:
1) The person doesn't have inner belief such that they can access divine powers.
2) There are other powers out there, that are not accessible via inner belief itself, and the character wants them, rather than the divine power.

Another, more metaphysical approach is that, in fact, everyone is already accessing power via that inner belief. All the trappings are merely the frameworks that support that belief. The wizard believes magical power comes from study. The warlock believes that power comes from their patron, and so on.

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That still applies to every class.

While SOME Monks require training, some may just believe in themselves enough to gain martial art prowess. Same with a Wizard. Most may need a spellbook and training but some may just believe in themselves enough to manifest the spells as needed.

It literarily works for every single class. "I simply know how to do it, because I wanted it bad enough."

DarkCrisis said:

That still applies to every class.

While SOME Monks require training, some may just believe in themselves enough to gain martial art prowess. Same with a Wizard. Most may need a spellbook and training but some may just believe in themselves enough to manifest the spells as needed.

It literarily works for every single class. "I simply know how to do it, because I wanted it bad enough."

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It can work for any class with supernatural abilities, yes.

Mind you, it isn't "I wanted it badly enough". It isn't about WANT. It is about BELIEF. You can have a character who wants to be a typical cleric, but their inner belief is that studying arcane theory is the way they can manifest power.

Note that it doesn't make sense for the character to be aware of this metaphysical arrangement. Actual knowledge of the truth belies the faith required.

Ooh, are we talking Mage: the Ascension?

Not everyone's ego is strong enough to give them power ups.

That's why other power sources exist.

For the weak.

A Fighter who doesn't have faith in themselves isn't going to be a great Fighter.

I believe in Crystal Lite, 'cause I believe in me! I've always disliked the idea of clerics who get their powers from abstract concepts, or the "warm and fuzzies" as I like to call it. I prefer them to have a connection to a deity and for said deity to remove powers when the cleric doesn't keep the faith.