D&D General Bizuids and Clercerocks

[RainOnTheSun]

So basically - Druids, Warlocks, Bards, Eldritch Knights are all lesser wizards who weren't able to get into a good wizard school, whole Clerics are sucking the blossom of their idol and Paladins are paladining and Sorcerers are the one class that was invented to give Main Caharacters their cake without them having to work for it.

This is exactly why I think the magic classes in D&D don't all play nicely with each other. Conceptually, who wants to play "I'm a wizard, but not as good?"

 

[Tonguez]

So when a wizard casts the same spell, what's entangling the plants for him? It's still not him personally manipulating them, he still can't do it without casting a spell to invoke some kind of energy that isn't in his body.

In my conception, the Wizard is personally manipulating them, the spell is literally using invisible threads of force to animate the ‘object’ like a puppet on a string (hence the needed concentration), a Druid would be asking the plant to move itself (here concentration is communing with the plants anima).
Of course 5e makes entangle a conjuration spell (which is dumb imho) so imc the wizard would be creating a tactile phantasm rather than a real plant.

 

[RainOnTheSun]

In my conception, the Wizard is personally manipulating them, the spell is literally using invisible threads of force to animate the ‘object’ like a puppet on a string (hence the needed concentration), a Druid would be asking the plant to move itself (here concentration is communing with the plants anima).
Of course 5e makes entangle a conjuration spell (which is dumb imho) so imc the wizard would be creating a tactile phantasm rather than a real plant.

Right, but where does the force come from? Is it a world where only people with a special spark of magic can be wizards, and they generate their own force? Or is everyone magical enough to generate their own force if they know how to, and the druid thinks it's impolite to the plant to do so?

Edit: Is the difference that the druid is manipulating an outside force that can say "no," and the wizard is manipulating one that can't?

 

[I'm A Banana]

Is the difference that the druid is manipulating an outside force that can say "no," and the wizard is manipulating one that can't?

Kinda.

The Wizard shapes reality through the force of their own willpower. They desire the world to be different, and make it different using magic. Their power comes from themselves, and their Intelligence helps them to use it to affect the world.

The Druid gains magical power from Nature Itself. They know how to work with it to accomplish their goals, how to see and perceive the flow of magic in the natural world. Their power comes from Nature, and their Wisdom helps them to better understand how to use that magic.

So they may both be affecting external things, but the Wizard is affecting it directly with their own power, and the Druid is asking an external power to behave in a way that aligns with their goals.

And a Sorcerer is using some inborn spark to affect it directly with their own power.

And a Cleric is asking an external power to work some miracle.

And a Warlock is using some acquired or stolen power, but using it themselves.

(and none of these are really hard lines, just sort of suggested narrative trends)

 

[Mind of tempest]

Kinda.

The Wizard shapes reality through the force of their own willpower. They desire the world to be different, and make it different using magic. Their power comes from themselves, and their Intelligence helps them to use it to affect the world.

The Druid gains magical power from Nature Itself. They know how to work with it to accomplish their goals, how to see and perceive the flow of magic in the natural world. Their power comes from Nature, and their Wisdom helps them to better understand how to use that magic.

So they may both be affecting external things, but the Wizard is affecting it directly with their own power, and the Druid is asking an external power to behave in a way that aligns with their goals.

And a Sorcerer is using some inborn spark to affect it directly with their own power.

And a Cleric is asking an external power to work some miracle.

And a Warlock is using some acquired or stolen power, but using it themselves.

(and none of these are really hard lines, just sort of suggested narrative trends)

define what nature is and how it gives powers?

 

[Tonguez]

define what nature is and how it gives powers?

Thats one of those campaign specific questions. The easiest route is a Nature Diety which makes Druids a form of cleric. My worlds tend to be animistic with Nature being a numinous* presence manifest in the Prime Material, which makes it more akin to an elemental than a god - Druids are essentially shaman of the Prime Material

*in the original Roman concept Numina were a non-personified divine presence and thus different to Deus (personified gods)

 

[Mind of tempest]

Thats one of those campaign specific questions. The easiest route is a Nature Diety which makes Druids a form of cleric. My worlds tend to be animistic with Nature being a numinous* presence manifest in the Prime Material, which makes it more akin to an elemental than a god - Druids are essentially shaman of the Prime Material

*in the original Roman concept Numina were a non-personified divine presence and thus different to Deus (personified gods)

yeah the whole it depends on the campaign seems like a basic problem

 

[I'm A Banana]

define what nature is and how it gives powers?

It's kind of metaphysics, so the core doc (smartly) doesn't lock it down too tightly. Nature is multiverse's tendency to give rise to a harmonious life process. It's elements, animals, plants, and fey. It's volcanoes and earthquakes and tornadoes. It's not really personified, but it has a will - to produce the conditions necessary and sufficient for life to exist. The suggestion is that the peoples of D&D with free will to shape the universe - your elves and your dwarves and your humans - don't always make decisions conducive to life's continue existence. And so druids interface with this kind of Gaia principle, this balance of things that makes life in the D&D multiverse possible.

The druid is described as part of that process, as all living beings are, but also a servant of that process. They may put their own will aside for the view that this process is good and necessary. In exchange for listening to the natural world, the natural world listens to them. They see themselves as part of the process of life and death, and the natural world recognizes them as allies. A druid preparing a spell is preparing a way to ask the natural world to help them.

A wizard preparing a spell is preparing a way to MAKE the world DO a thing, based on their own will.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

define what nature is and how it gives powers?

My answer is that nature is animistic, with many small nature spirits. These are what give the druids their magic, just like large spirits, AKA gods give magic to the clerics.

 

[Clint_L]

I love these various systems for explaining how magic works in all of your settings. I'm going to have to steal from them!

Mostly, I'm so lazy that if it ever comes up I just ask the player to tell me how their particular magic works.