D&D General One thing I hate about the Sorcerer

[W'rkncacnter]

So, who is a good example of a high level fighter who does extraordinary things and comes from mundane origins (ie no demigods or aliens or the like)? Who is the level 15 fighter emulating?

beowulf.

EDIT: DAMMIT, i should've checked the next page, i ninja'd MYSELF! aaagh...

 

[Gammadoodler]

I think most Wuxia swordmen are closer to monks in terms of ability, particularly with harnessing chi through practice and meditation. Then again, the presence of the monk eats much of the Eastern warrior/mystic design space. I will admit my knowledge of the genre is limited to some general references and a viewing of Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon though.

Arthur though has an absolutely nontraditional origin. And he's got several blessings and carries an artifact sword. I still think of him as more the traditional paladin than fighter, but YMMV.



That's my point. Hercules doesn't start out a normal man who through trials earns his demigod status, he's born special from the jump and only gets special-er. However, he's saddled with a class that needs to represent both him and specialness AND Boromir and his normalness. And that doesn't really work. The shotgun marriage of everyday swordsman and mythic hero isn't doing either any favors, and my opinion is one of those two should be jettisoned for the good of the other. And in a choice between everyman and demigod, demigod has the better potential.

There are a fair number of dragonslayers listed in a single Wikipedia article

Most shounen animes feature some version of extraordinarily talented brawler (whether as main or side character. e.g Rock Lee). I seem to recall one anime where the whole premise is legendary mortals battling gods in a series of arena matches. I didn't get very far in but I seem to recall Lu Bu conducting himself pretty well against Thor.

It seems the original Aquaman was 100% human.

I'm sure there are others.

And this is all in service of supporting an extremely specific character archetype.

Edit: And by the by..Hawkeye, while out-classed by the Avengers, would also be an order of magnitude more capable than the PHB fighter.

 

[W'rkncacnter]

I seem to recall one anime where the whole premise is legendary mortals battling gods in a series of arena matches. I didn't get very far in but I seem to recall Lu Bu conducting himself pretty well against Thor.

i think you're thinking of record of ragnarok. in which case to be fair, the mortals are allowed to wield other gods/divine beings as artifacts in that show to give them a chance of winning, so...

 

[Gammadoodler]

i think you're thinking of record of ragnarok. in which case to be fair, the mortals are allowed to wield other gods/divine beings as artifacts in that show to give them a chance of winning, so...

That sounds right.

Iirc, most of the deal with the artifacts is just so that they have weapons that won't break, rather than giving them additional capabilities...please correct me if I'm misremembering.

But besides. We're also at the tippy top end of the powerscale here going one on one vs. gods.

 

[Faolyn]

Ok. Fighters cultivate their "warrior spirit." Done. Though I truly do not understand why in a fantasy story we need an explanation for a mythic hero doing epic things.

Because it's a game, not a novel.

If you're writing a story, your characters can do whatever you want them to for any reason you think makes sense in the story. In a game, however, there's usually some sort of mechanic to keep the characters from going too crazy with their powers.

In Level Up, all martials get exertion points that they can spend to use maneuvers, which let them do fancy swordwork (or tripping or shoving foes, or whatever).

Some martials can use exertion points to let them do other things. Adepts (monks) can spend exertion to do things their 5e counterparts would do with ki points, like the ton of extra attacks or running up walls or whatever.

In the fiction of a game, you can call it warrior spirit or ki or whatever term you want. But the mechanics use a point system. If the player spends the last of their exertion, the character is too tired to do any fancy swordwork.

 

[Gammadoodler]

Because it's a game, not a novel.

If you're writing a story, your characters can do whatever you want them to for any reason you think makes sense in the story. In a game, however, there's usually some sort of mechanic to keep the characters from going too crazy with their powers.

In Level Up, all martials get exertion points that they can spend to use maneuvers, which let them do fancy swordwork (or tripping or shoving foes, or whatever).

Some martials can use exertion points to let them do other things. Adepts (monks) can spend exertion to do things their 5e counterparts would do with ki points, like the ton of extra attacks or running up walls or whatever.

In the fiction of a game, you can call it warrior spirit or ki or whatever term you want. But the mechanics use a point system. If the player spends the last of their exertion, the character is too tired to do any fancy swordwork.

By your description, the narrative source of martials' abilities is not 'exertion'.

Exertion is simply the game mechanism used to spend whatever power they have from wherever it is drawn, whenever the system has determined that the ability should have a cost.

 

[W'rkncacnter]

Iirc, most of the deal with the artifacts is just so that they have weapons that won't break, rather than giving them additional capabilities...please correct me if I'm misremembering.

oh no, they absolutely have powers. some pretty crazy ones at that.

But besides. We're also at the tippy top end of the powerscale here going one on one vs. gods.

true.

 

[Gammadoodler]

oh no, they absolutely have powers. some pretty crazy ones at that.

true.

Ahh.. ok..just remembered what felt like a whole episode of Lu Bu breaking staff after staff on a mountaintop trying to perfect some crazy technique, but then finally being able to do the attack in the arena

It's been a hot minute.

 

[Faolyn]

By your description, the narrative source of martials' abilities is not 'exertion'.

Exertion is simply the game mechanism used to spend whatever power they have from wherever it is drawn, whenever the system has determined that the ability should have a cost.

Here's the books description of exertion: A warrior requires willpower, whether born from discipline, survival instinct, or bloodlust, to control the ebb and flow of combat around them. Every call to act beyond a typical block or strike depletes this cool disposition.

Here's the section on exertion for the adept: At 2nd level, your training allows you to harness your mental energy into a supernatural state of focus. Some cultures refer to this energy as axé, prana, pneuma, or ki. Your access to this energy is represented by your exertion pool.

So... yes. You're right. Narratively, you decide how you can pull off your maneuvers. The term "exertion" strongly implies physical effort, but if you really wanted your fighter to be able to do these things because of magic, go ahead. And in fact, there are even magical combat traditions.

 

[Gammadoodler]

Here's the books description of exertion: A warrior requires willpower, whether born from discipline, survival instinct, or bloodlust, to control the ebb and flow of combat around them. Every call to act beyond a typical block or strike depletes this cool disposition.

Here's the section on exertion for the adept: At 2nd level, your training allows you to harness your mental energy into a supernatural state of focus. Some cultures refer to this energy as axé, prana, pneuma, or ki. Your access to this energy is represented by your exertion pool.

So... yes. You're right. Narratively, you decide how you can pull off your maneuvers. The term "exertion" strongly implies physical effort, but if you really wanted your fighter to be able to do these things because of magic, go ahead. And in fact, there are even magical combat traditions.

Perfect, so then, the particular source of martials' power shouldn't matter so long as the resulting capabilities are one or both of:

A. Comparable in scope/impact to what other PCs are doing
B. Finite in quantity.

Correct?

As long as you can't break the game all time, call it absorbed cosmic radiation, god juice, mutant powers, dragon blood, or just plain old-fashioned grit..

It all works.