D&D 5E 5E economics -The Peasants are revolting!
- Thread starter kigmatzomat
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LordEntrails
Hero
Yep, and a $100/night hotel room is a lot more expensive than a $500/month apartment. An adventurer is going to stay in a hotel, a commoner is going to have an apartment or even a house.
LordEntrails
Hero
The say nothing about costs or economics of an NPC. So since it so clearly says that classes, monsters and NPCS use different rules, why would you assume they would use the same rules for economics? IMO, that's a pretty big stretch... "Oh, the rules says that PC and NPCs don't use the same rules for experience and spell casting etc, but since it says nothing about economics, I'm going to assume that PC and NPC economics are the same."
What flavor text?
Seems like a lot less gymnastics than saying the rules apply to NPC economics when the rules say nothing about such.
Agreed, because it's not really a flaw in 5E. NPC economics are simple a part of the fantasy world that most people just don't care about, have no interest in worrying about, and the rules don't waste pages trying to justify.
Since you want to try and look at economics of the real world, try equating an adventurer to a traveler. Sure, I can travel around walking by foot, living out of garbage cans and eating poorly for pretty cheap. But if I want to live as a traveler in the same manner as I do as a commoner, it is grossly much more expensive. Instead of buy $10 of rice and beans to eat for a week, I've got to hit up Taco Bell or Filberto's for a cheap bean burrito for $5 per meal (a 10 fold increase in cost). Or instead if I live well, the grocery store a $100 of a week's groceries including lots of protein, sides, etc, I've got to spend $40 for a meal at a restaurant. Instead of a clean cheap apartment in a poor part of town for $350/month, I can spend $50/night ($1500/month) on a cheap motel in a poor part of town. Or for a higher standard, $750/month for a nice apartment or $150/night ($4500/month) for a business class hotel.
It's pretty easy to see that an adventurer's (a person who's not always in the same spot and relies on other service industries) costs of living are easily 5-10 times more than someone who lives and works in one place. So, since they PHB/DMG don't have economics of NPCs, why don't you just assume they are 10-20% of an adventurer's costs and see where that leaves your world building.
the Jester
Legend
But it's also easy to find a bottle of wine for $10. There's no sense that a cheap bottle of wine will cost you a couple of coppers in D&D's price lists.
That said, Deadlands had a concept where you could pay less to buy crappy versions of gear, and I really like that.
Starfox
Hero
Tourists do indeed pay more. We once were tourists in a Shadowrun game. Debating what it would cost us, I said "monthly living expenses, but per week". The table agreed.
Henadic Theologian
Legend
This is why fiends have a booming trade in souls, property 8n fantasy settings and RL feed evil, so it always backfires on society.
rmcoen
Adventurer
Also keep in mind that it costs more to eat healthy. Look at the different in price between junk food (or the college-standbys of Mac'n'cheese and Ramen noodles), and fresh fruit, meat, etc. [Just forget post-COVID nonsense pricing for a minute.] You can get a big bag of chips for $3 (local brand, maybe not Ruffles), and have a "meal" or even two. Or get two bananas. Or the difference between a cap of soup for 60 cents, and a steak (which still needs to be cooked) for $10. One "reason" peasants stay peasants is because of the quality and quantity of food they can afford. Food = energy.
But yes, as others have pointed out, there are usually multiple workers in a "home" that adventurers would be unwilling to live in. Maybe Worker #1 pays his entire 2sp/day to maintain the house and required living supplies (cloth, furniture, a new ladle), but Worker #2 is spending his on the meat and veggies going in the 6-person stew and porridge meals. And Worker #3 is bringing in enough that they can all have a couple pints at the tavern on Friday. While Worker #4 saves her pennies so she and Worker #5 can pay for reading lessons or an apprenticeship to maybe step up to the next "level"...
To avoid playing "Bankers and Bookkeepers" (as a page-1 person mentioned), though, I assume that the "background" people actually have a lifestyle that is double what the PHB rate is. Or said another way, their "lifestyle expense" is only half what an adventurer's perspective on the same lifestyle would be. The workers in my example above - and most of this thread - only need 1 silver a day to have that lifestyle, and spend the other silver drinking with their buddies. When an adventurer hires them to till the fields for 2sp, they are basically doubling their income/lifestyle because either the adventurer is unwittingly also providing room & board, or they are using the "scraps" of the task that adventuerers wouldn't bother with (like gathering the chaff from the wheat fields, or the extra pieces of leather from the cobbler) to supplement their lifestyle expenses.
Tipping such a commoner a gold isn't "OMG I've never seen one", but it is like a $7/hr minimum wage person winning the local radio station's $1000 prize!
But yes, as others have pointed out, there are usually multiple workers in a "home" that adventurers would be unwilling to live in. Maybe Worker #1 pays his entire 2sp/day to maintain the house and required living supplies (cloth, furniture, a new ladle), but Worker #2 is spending his on the meat and veggies going in the 6-person stew and porridge meals. And Worker #3 is bringing in enough that they can all have a couple pints at the tavern on Friday. While Worker #4 saves her pennies so she and Worker #5 can pay for reading lessons or an apprenticeship to maybe step up to the next "level"...
To avoid playing "Bankers and Bookkeepers" (as a page-1 person mentioned), though, I assume that the "background" people actually have a lifestyle that is double what the PHB rate is. Or said another way, their "lifestyle expense" is only half what an adventurer's perspective on the same lifestyle would be. The workers in my example above - and most of this thread - only need 1 silver a day to have that lifestyle, and spend the other silver drinking with their buddies. When an adventurer hires them to till the fields for 2sp, they are basically doubling their income/lifestyle because either the adventurer is unwittingly also providing room & board, or they are using the "scraps" of the task that adventuerers wouldn't bother with (like gathering the chaff from the wheat fields, or the extra pieces of leather from the cobbler) to supplement their lifestyle expenses.
Tipping such a commoner a gold isn't "OMG I've never seen one", but it is like a $7/hr minimum wage person winning the local radio station's $1000 prize!
Xeviat
Dungeon Mistress, she/her
For my next game, we're going to focus on the Bastions and spend more time with downtime, time, and money and such. One thing I'm considering is switching the game to a Silver model, and having the coin conversions be 1/100. 100 CP equals 1 SP, 100 SP equals 1 GP, 100 GP equals 1 PP.
The beauty of this is all listed GP prices can be switched to SP without any math.
It doesn't change how anything works, but it does make it so CP and SP will get used for a bit longer.
As for below common rarity, I use "mundane" for that. Mundane goods are up to 10 gp, and something below Mundane is up to 1 GP, I just don't have a word for it. Common are "Common Magic Items", not common in general. There is overlap, though. Chainmail is a common item by pricing, splint is an uncommon item, and plate armor is a rare item.
UngeheuerLich
Legend
This all sounds reasonable. Although unskilled 2sp per day is harsh.
By my rough conversion guidelines, that is about 20 dollar per day.
I hope those unskilled people are learning as apprentices mostly, mainly funded by their parents and become skilled after doing their job for a few month.
By my rough conversion guidelines, that is about 20 dollar per day.
I hope those unskilled people are learning as apprentices mostly, mainly funded by their parents and become skilled after doing their job for a few month.
lynnfredricks
Explorer
It should work out to be easier to specify classes of goods that remain more expensive.
You could also have classes of money for purposes of trade (worth X # of gold) in specific sizes.
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