Gradine
🏳️⚧️ (she/her) 🇵🇸
Oh no, I have no expectation that he is responsible for any of the bad actions of Ink Bat, but I wonder if he knew anything about Suleiman or his sketchy past before taking the work.
Press The Arneson Estate views The Age of the Wolf as a fake Blackmoor Publication
- Thread starter Blackmoor_Film
- Start date
Oh no, I have no expectation that he is responsible for any of the bad actions of Ink Bat, but I wonder if he knew anything about Suleiman or his sketchy past before taking the work.
Sacrosanct
Legend
CleverNickName
Limit Break Dancing (He/They)
Ooof. Looks like it's...not going well.
Whizbang Dustyboots
Gnometown Hero
"This isn't the whole story" doesn't really translate to "you should definitely pay to attend a panel where you get a 'free' book" for me (were I at GenCon). If anything, it says "maybe come back to this project in nine months, when the dust will have hopefully settled and what's going on seems more clear."
This seems like a defense, but when you read it closely it just raises more red flags. "Neither Wizards nor the Arneson family estate had the license when this project began." Even if this is true it is not even a little bit relevant to whether or not Ink Bat has the rights to use the IP in 2024. The statement seems to hint at the fact (mentioned by Robert Reed of Code Monkey, linked above) that the project was started by Code Monkey in 2009 under a proper license. But even if some work was done under a license in 2009 it does not mean a freelancer on that project could take the unfinished work, fill it in, and profit off of it in 2024.
If there was no "conflict" (unclear what that even means - did you have the rights or didn't you?) why did Ink Bat approach the Estate asking for a license at all? It seems like Ink Bat understood they needed one, and only balked when the Estate asked for proof of Arneson's involvement - at which point Ink Bat went radio silent. This jibes with what Reed says about Suleiman being a freelancer who had no contact with Arneson. Suleiman would not have had any proof, and the guys at Code Monkey who did have the proof would not have been inclined to help him out. So the Estate's request was effectively a non-starter for Suleiman, who seems to have decided to take his chances without a license.
The bottom line is Ink Bat either had a license to use the IP or they didn't. If they did, there is absolutely no downside to saying so. The fact that the only defense that they even hint at is completely frivolous doesn't give me a lot of confidence that we will see they were acting in good faith when it all shakes out.
People forget how long I've been around these forums.
Please note post #42 and then #46 in the below link.
www.enworld.org
This may make certain folks uncomfortable, but honestly, they deserve to be.
I have someone I consider a friend and several people I respect attached to this work by IB. I hope this does NOT come back to bite them badly.
Please note post #42 and then #46 in the below link.
4e Blackmoor? Forked Thread: Pray for Dave Arneson!
Well, my FLGS had problems getting it as well. Darn and blast.
www.enworld.org
This may make certain folks uncomfortable, but honestly, they deserve to be.
I have someone I consider a friend and several people I respect attached to this work by IB. I hope this does NOT come back to bite them badly.
jdrakeh
Front Range Warlock
I know (by name) some of the folks involved with this and respect most of them enough to not brand them as grifters. But then there's C.A. Suleiman. That guy was at the center of a fairly prominent SA scandal a few years back and some people whom I previously held in high regard ran interference for him at GAMA. So I honestly have no idea what to think.
Maggan
Writer for CY_BORG, Forbidden Lands and Dragonbane
I'm surprised that a certified licensing professional seems to be surprised that the owner of the license has issued a "self serving" statement.
I mean, isn't that what they are supposed to do? Serve their own interests?
QuentinGeorge
Legend
Just one note here: Greyhawk's Blackmoor was changed to Arn - but that Blackmoor is not the Arneson Blackmoor, it merely shares the names. Blackmoor/Arn in Greyhawk was mostly developed by Wolfgang Baur in the 3E era, and is a place of clockpunk automatons.One of the problems however, I feel should be clarified, is that while the Estate apparently has nabbed rights to the trademark, they do not have any rights to the Blackmoor setting, anymore than the Gygax Estate has rights to the Greyhawk settings or D&D.
The Estate has nabbed the trademark, and apparently WoTC felt it prudent to change the name of Blackmoor to Arn, but there's a lot up in the air. They don't appear to have IP rights, and a lot of this stuff was done with agreements with WoTC, along with (perhaps) Dave Arneson's approval. Note the press release doesn't say anything about legality. For all we know, this could be covered in another old contract.
I'm going to provide some links for folks. Like anything else, it's always easy to look at one press release and immediately take sides, but there's probably a more complex dynamic here:
Background on some of the rights: [Blackmoor5e] Age of the Wolf to be released for free after 15 years! - The Piazza
Some thoughts on the trademarks from a few site:
Blackmoor Trademark Claimed by Arneson Estate | Original D&D Discussion
The Blackmoor Trademark has been claimed by the David Arneson Estate and has been licensed to the company called Fellowship of the Thing Ltd. The company has previously created the documentaryodd74.proboards.com
Blackmoor Trademark Claimed by Arneson Estate Documentary Makers Say
The company known as The Fellowship of the Thing, creators of the documentary Secrets of Blackmoor are looking to expand their business int...blackmoormystara.blogspot.com
Some additional background -- a few folks have found the people who are overseeing the estate might be a little too, shall we say, "aggressive", in their claims of ownership, opinions from folks who knew Dave back in the day.
Bad Actors Slandering Tonisborg - Page 2
Bad Actors Slandering Tonisborg - Page 2www.therpgsite.com
I don't know who's in the right, but I do believe that (a) people need to do enough independent research first before rushing to judgement, and (b) it's probably not a good idea for the fight to be done with press releases.
Mystara's Blackmoor is the Arneson Blackmoor depicted in the DA modules like Temple of the Frog. AFAIK that has not been renamed or indeed even mentioned in 5E.
borringman
Explorer
I mean, OK? I'm about to rant here so heads up -- I'm not yelling at you, I'm yelling at the AotW folks.
(ahem)
I couldn't give an unwiped kobold's arse whether you own the trademark or not. There's a very simple solution to all this: If you're such hot stuff, make your own damn IP. Rename "Blackmoor" to "Darkgrassland" or whatever -- spiritual successors are a thing. If you just want to make fan fiction, fine, but then make it free. Then (gasp) you don't need to bother with trademark battles!
If you absolutely, uncompromisingly need to ride a dead guy's coattails to get noticed, like that's your marketing pitch and/or business model, maybe your stuff isn't good to begin with. I say that as someone whose stuff doesn't get noticed. I own my failure. Own yours, and leave Arneson alone.
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