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3PP Release Complete Class Compendium Playtesters Needed!
- Thread starter Mike Myler
- Start date
I was looking to do more a a mixture between a combat medic and Tesshu Fujioka. Some one whos healing others with out magic and but also who has combat efficiency due to knowledge of anatomy.
Mike Myler
Grand Vizier of the Googly Mooglies
Ideally folks prepare feedback in a word document or google word document, including the page number and header text (for example, [Page 4, Primal Power, <note>]). But I'll take what I can get where I can get it. ☺
Mike Myler
Grand Vizier of the Googly Mooglies
There's a survey! If you have the playtest packet you should have been messaged with a link to the survey, but if I missed you please let me know.
This isn't great writing, but it's all the collected notes/issues we had over the campaign with the Mad Scientist and Mechanic.
Mad Scientist Overview
The basic framework was alright. A caster-ish class with up to level 7 not-spells, most of which are blasting anyhow so not much to worry about narrative breaking. On the spellcaster side, this is pretty straightforward.
However, in the long run, they can fall a behind other casters (full or otherwise) in that department due to a lack of power-staff or 'wand of the war mage' equivalents for the tech weapon their spells use.
Fleshworker can be considered fine since at least it's a subclass within the class; like choosing an Oath of Tyranny Paladin., but even that one would greatly benefit from a "you are copying the effects of, not ritually torturing a celestial to death" clause. That you'd be automatically marked as irredeemably evil just for gaining the feats is again narrowing things needlessly. Still funny that 'Engineer of Evil' is arguably the least evil of all three subclasses.
The PC:
As a result of the feat problem, our DM 'gently pushed' the "MSci" into an alternative: The Technomagic Brawler pair and Scavenger. This would in the grand scheme of things be a bit too limited a list of feats (literally three), but allowed our Trickster to not qualify for immediate smiting or get debuffed by protection from evil just for having dared reach level 6.
Overcharged Shot helped compensate for the base class' problem in ranged spell shots, but mechanically it's a bit of a 'slap-patch' scenario. Having the "tax" by choosing the right subclass doesn't rectify the issue for other subclasses.
Bombthrower rarely got used for not-fog-clouds; it's not so much that the ability itself is bad, but on a class with tons of AoE spell access already, and the GP value is restrictive... it was oft ignored in terms of "is 4d6 (later 2x) worth my action". Using your own Save DC helped grenades stay at least a bit relevant.
Mad Scientist Overview
The basic framework was alright. A caster-ish class with up to level 7 not-spells, most of which are blasting anyhow so not much to worry about narrative breaking. On the spellcaster side, this is pretty straightforward.
However, in the long run, they can fall a behind other casters (full or otherwise) in that department due to a lack of power-staff or 'wand of the war mage' equivalents for the tech weapon their spells use.
- Yes, at 18th you get an expertise die, but so many games don't get that far, and even a prestige class (3 levels) would lock it out for good. For most players it's unfortunately "basically never".
- If there were a way to cannibalize or attune an item INTO your technological focus the way Pact of the Blade, Eldritch Gunslingers, or 5e Inventors can do, that would solve the issue.
- Merely amoral would fit the mad scientist theme, but the options given are neither subtle nor converted to equivalent tech. What part of cannibalizing kids and wearing their skin says "mad scientist"? Starving diseased creatures to poison more wells sounds more like a Diabolist thing doesn't it? Why does our jetpack HAVE to involve dismembering a winged horse?
Fleshworker can be considered fine since at least it's a subclass within the class; like choosing an Oath of Tyranny Paladin., but even that one would greatly benefit from a "you are copying the effects of, not ritually torturing a celestial to death" clause. That you'd be automatically marked as irredeemably evil just for gaining the feats is again narrowing things needlessly. Still funny that 'Engineer of Evil' is arguably the least evil of all three subclasses.
The PC:
As a result of the feat problem, our DM 'gently pushed' the "MSci" into an alternative: The Technomagic Brawler pair and Scavenger. This would in the grand scheme of things be a bit too limited a list of feats (literally three), but allowed our Trickster to not qualify for immediate smiting or get debuffed by protection from evil just for having dared reach level 6.
Overcharged Shot helped compensate for the base class' problem in ranged spell shots, but mechanically it's a bit of a 'slap-patch' scenario. Having the "tax" by choosing the right subclass doesn't rectify the issue for other subclasses.
Bombthrower rarely got used for not-fog-clouds; it's not so much that the ability itself is bad, but on a class with tons of AoE spell access already, and the GP value is restrictive... it was oft ignored in terms of "is 4d6 (later 2x) worth my action". Using your own Save DC helped grenades stay at least a bit relevant.
Apologize for doubleposting, but probably best to keep them separate since Mechanic is several paragraphs as well.
Mechanic Overview:
A rare class to get Extra Attack Rank 2. Unfortunately as we were playing in a more generic fantasy A5E setting, the radiation parts were basically irrelevant (this would've been quite a loss for a heavy spec).
The Battletech-like neural security was an appreciated touch. It was important (and the clearer the better) that some abilities were/are deliniated as not needing wearing the mechframe. I didn't have too much difficulty there, but it always felt like some kind of symbol, indicator or keyword in the feature names would've helped ensure no mixups. In a final version maybe just font color would do for "only in mech"?
So after several readings, I approached as a (ranged) alternative fighter. I'd have to run a closer comparison with Trooper but I suspect it will make the Trooper feel a bit sad. Then again a lot of things make Trooper a bit sad.
My first problem came with mounts. The mounted weapons rules are extremely strict and ran afoul of themselves one mechpoint in:
New Text was: You mount a single one-handed ranged weapon onto one of your mechaframe's arms. Energy-based weapons regain uses at a rate of 1 per minute.
Reason for that latter part was that by the "exhausted its shots" wording, it had to be emptied entirely to start recharging which in no way prevented you between fights, it just meant shooting corpses or walls just to drain the last handful of charges.
I ran into a second ranged issue; my armor's dex max. Exceptional Design doesn't change the maximum value, so it turns out the only dex-compatible one at all was Light.
Some kind of alternative (doesn't have to be allowing dexterity) for the AC would be helpful there, especially since the Armor Plating has cumulative cost on a medium. Allowing integration/scavenging of magical equipment to transfer their plusses at the cost of the item itself maybe?
Weaponized Gauntlets seems like a bit of a waste; any chance it could just be folded into Enhanced Strikes' package? If we're caring about our unarmed output we're probably putting three points in there anyway.
The Cantrips found a bit of use, but there were very clear winners because Power Laser.
I think they (the not-power-laser ones) could be refined a bit into alternative weapons by saying something along the lines of "once per turn when attacking you may replace..." for each and dropping the damage to d4s (which we're already packing for the custom guns).
So an installed Incendiary Laser at level 17 would be a 4d4+INT attack, and if you want to replace more attacks you'll need to disco it with cryo and corrosive jet.
I don't want to suggest a bonus-action cantrip because this class definitely does not need that. It does thirst for something to do WITH bonus actions in general other than jet boots, but offensively it's already in a good place. Maybe some kind of bonus aid for friendlies? There's a good amount of tankiness in this class but few ways to really keep the attention or protect allies with it.
Exploratory Mechanisms (campaign ended at 13th) and Gears of Fortune:
We already had some travel methods from the magic folks, so I was focused on skill use. Manual Precision & Related Field created a deeply unstealthy party rogue, Needs a Tune-Up & Talk Shop took care of all the lies (and there were many).
Witty Banter fell short though; the 4 hour limit and the fact that it ignores just one once per long rest meant there was always still the need to recover - never felt like it impacted anything. Turned out to be other methods others had to actually clear the stuff out, or when truly needed we had little choice but to rest up anyway.
Custom Weapon table: Where's the lasers? No radiant? No energy weapons except the switchable high level Metaweapon?
So... Party deemed it a bit too complicated. I was alright with it but it did take some time for me to decipher and others just weren't interested even when I offered to handle all of it for them.
Were it not explicitly in my class abilities and intended for testing, GM would probably have said no to it altogether.
Personally I'd bring the categories for purposes of "one step up/down"(like the Mechanic crafting) together. It's a bit silly that if you want a 1d4 bludgeoning pistol instead of pierce or slash, you'd need TWO steps of upgrades to give it launcher, that sort of thing. Besides, in my experience bludgeon's usually been preferable to piercing, so it being "inferior" felt odd.
There could also be some room for 3d4 instead of going straight from 1d12 to 3d6. Sure it's not higher peak but the minimum and average are more reliable. Any chance the cone and line could have several varieties (like splash) or be based on the range so they can grow?
Or maybe rejigger the table to create some baselines (Light/1h/2h melee, 1h/2h ranged) and a number of points/bonuses/etc to move along each non-property track, so you might have a 1d6 20ft splash if you really want to, or other combos?
Properties can sorta be detached anyway since they were "up to Proficiency Bonus" and the restriction just a list of minimum X.
Mechanic Overview:
A rare class to get Extra Attack Rank 2. Unfortunately as we were playing in a more generic fantasy A5E setting, the radiation parts were basically irrelevant (this would've been quite a loss for a heavy spec).
The Battletech-like neural security was an appreciated touch. It was important (and the clearer the better) that some abilities were/are deliniated as not needing wearing the mechframe. I didn't have too much difficulty there, but it always felt like some kind of symbol, indicator or keyword in the feature names would've helped ensure no mixups. In a final version maybe just font color would do for "only in mech"?
So after several readings, I approached as a (ranged) alternative fighter. I'd have to run a closer comparison with Trooper but I suspect it will make the Trooper feel a bit sad. Then again a lot of things make Trooper a bit sad.
My first problem came with mounts. The mounted weapons rules are extremely strict and ran afoul of themselves one mechpoint in:
- Simple or martial with no properties or the light property only (frame type only further expands melee).
- The Mounted Ranged Weapon modification states it requires the loading property.
- Like... "Ammunition". or Restock. Or Autofire. Or Insulated, etc etc.
New Text was: You mount a single one-handed ranged weapon onto one of your mechaframe's arms. Energy-based weapons regain uses at a rate of 1 per minute.
Reason for that latter part was that by the "exhausted its shots" wording, it had to be emptied entirely to start recharging which in no way prevented you between fights, it just meant shooting corpses or walls just to drain the last handful of charges.
I ran into a second ranged issue; my armor's dex max. Exceptional Design doesn't change the maximum value, so it turns out the only dex-compatible one at all was Light.
Some kind of alternative (doesn't have to be allowing dexterity) for the AC would be helpful there, especially since the Armor Plating has cumulative cost on a medium. Allowing integration/scavenging of magical equipment to transfer their plusses at the cost of the item itself maybe?
Weaponized Gauntlets seems like a bit of a waste; any chance it could just be folded into Enhanced Strikes' package? If we're caring about our unarmed output we're probably putting three points in there anyway.
The Cantrips found a bit of use, but there were very clear winners because Power Laser.
I think they (the not-power-laser ones) could be refined a bit into alternative weapons by saying something along the lines of "once per turn when attacking you may replace..." for each and dropping the damage to d4s (which we're already packing for the custom guns).
So an installed Incendiary Laser at level 17 would be a 4d4+INT attack, and if you want to replace more attacks you'll need to disco it with cryo and corrosive jet.
I don't want to suggest a bonus-action cantrip because this class definitely does not need that. It does thirst for something to do WITH bonus actions in general other than jet boots, but offensively it's already in a good place. Maybe some kind of bonus aid for friendlies? There's a good amount of tankiness in this class but few ways to really keep the attention or protect allies with it.
Exploratory Mechanisms (campaign ended at 13th) and Gears of Fortune:
We already had some travel methods from the magic folks, so I was focused on skill use. Manual Precision & Related Field created a deeply unstealthy party rogue, Needs a Tune-Up & Talk Shop took care of all the lies (and there were many).
Witty Banter fell short though; the 4 hour limit and the fact that it ignores just one once per long rest meant there was always still the need to recover - never felt like it impacted anything. Turned out to be other methods others had to actually clear the stuff out, or when truly needed we had little choice but to rest up anyway.
Custom Weapon table: Where's the lasers? No radiant? No energy weapons except the switchable high level Metaweapon?
So... Party deemed it a bit too complicated. I was alright with it but it did take some time for me to decipher and others just weren't interested even when I offered to handle all of it for them.
Were it not explicitly in my class abilities and intended for testing, GM would probably have said no to it altogether.
Personally I'd bring the categories for purposes of "one step up/down"(like the Mechanic crafting) together. It's a bit silly that if you want a 1d4 bludgeoning pistol instead of pierce or slash, you'd need TWO steps of upgrades to give it launcher, that sort of thing. Besides, in my experience bludgeon's usually been preferable to piercing, so it being "inferior" felt odd.
There could also be some room for 3d4 instead of going straight from 1d12 to 3d6. Sure it's not higher peak but the minimum and average are more reliable. Any chance the cone and line could have several varieties (like splash) or be based on the range so they can grow?
Or maybe rejigger the table to create some baselines (Light/1h/2h melee, 1h/2h ranged) and a number of points/bonuses/etc to move along each non-property track, so you might have a 1d6 20ft splash if you really want to, or other combos?
Properties can sorta be detached anyway since they were "up to Proficiency Bonus" and the restriction just a list of minimum X.
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