D&D General How Do I Help Mentor a GM Making Rookie Mistakes?

Gorck · Tuesday at 5:28 PM

Wow, your issues are a lot worse than mine. My 13 year old daughter decided she wanted to try her hand at DMing. I created 2 characters and she created a third (yes, I know we’re breaking the unwritten rules of “don’t play more than one character” and “the DM shouldn’t play a character” but it’s only the two of us).

We’re playing in Wildemount and she sets the scene for the campaign’s story: we start out in Nicodranas where my characters stole something [too vague] and her character caught us. Rather than turning us in, she agreed to keep her mouth shut if we let her join us. Then we stole a ship to sail to Rumblecusp. But we got caught in a huge storm and were shipwrecked on Urukayxl, and have to find a way to get off the island.

It sounded decent enough for her first attempt at a campaign…..if we had started shipwrecked on the island. But, instead, she had us start in Nicodranas just after her character confronted my characters. [railroading] So…..I guess I’m going to be asking her character to join us and then head down to the docks. I wonder what’ll happen after that

Clint_L · Tuesday at 5:54 PM

Retreater said:
Well, we finally had our next session after I made the original post.

We did not interact with any new house rules that session.

There were other issues that I had, but I didn't complain. Just tried my best to be supportive.

Awesome!

Retreater said:
1) Having players roll for everything. ("I know you have an ability to find your way around a town and you need to find addresses to deliver letters that is your character's side hustle to try to make a few extra silver coins now that we've reached town. But you need to roll several Perception checks to do that.") [Unnecessary die rolling.]

This could be the DM's preference, or maybe she'll refine her style.

Retreater said:
2) I cast Detect Magic to try to find out if there were traps on the front door. I found traps. We had no way of disabling the trap, so we climbed to the 2nd floor and went through a window. ("But you all missed all the fun encounters and story things I put on the 1st floor so the 2nd floor encounters didn't explain my story.") [Don't gate off story and fun encounters. If there hadn't been a trap on the door, we would've followed the path she wanted.]

This sounds like a perfect formative experience for your DM - things didn't go as planned, and she was disappointed. She doesn't need notes; she clearly gets it and can come up with her own solutions in the future. Mistakes are vital in the learning process.

Retreater said:
3) The town's zealot religious leader is burning a woman at the stake for heresy (saying that the religious leader is a zealot). We're being strongarmed into siding with the religious leader. Every player at the table wants to save the innocent woman. ("Your characters wouldn't think this way. The culture is very religious and all of you are religious. You would be okay with this execution.") [Every player at the table was disturbed by this. And we had no Session 0 to talk about religious and cultural persecutions being not okay.]

Okay, I would take issue with this one, as D&D is a cooperative game. I am mindful that I am not hearing her side of events, but this is a situation where, IMO, the players should feel free to rebel against the DM, since how they play their characters is largely their business. And the players refusing to go along with a plot that they found uncomfortable would be a good learning experience for the DM, though could be fraught depending on how everyone reacts to the situation. Good humour goes a long way ("I'm afraid we're not going to be doing that!").

Swarmkeeper · Wednesday at 3:11 AM

Retreater said:
Well, we finally had our next session after I made the original post.

We did not interact with any new house rules that session.

There were other issues that I had, but I didn't complain. Just tried my best to be supportive.
1) Having players roll for everything. ("I know you have an ability to find your way around a town and you need to find addresses to deliver letters that is your character's side hustle to try to make a few extra silver coins now that we've reached town. But you need to roll several Perception checks to do that.") [Unnecessary die rolling.]
2) I cast Detect Magic to try to find out if there were traps on the front door. I found traps. We had no way of disabling the trap, so we climbed to the 2nd floor and went through a window. ("But you all missed all the fun encounters and story things I put on the 1st floor so the 2nd floor encounters didn't explain my story.") [Don't gate off story and fun encounters. If there hadn't been a trap on the door, we would've followed the path she wanted.]
3) The town's zealot religious leader is burning a woman at the stake for heresy (saying that the religious leader is a zealot). We're being strongarmed into siding with the religious leader. Every player at the table wants to save the innocent woman. ("Your characters wouldn't think this way. The culture is very religious and all of you are religious. You would be okay with this execution.") [Every player at the table was disturbed by this. And we had no Session 0 to talk about religious and cultural persecutions being not okay.]

Mistakes are one thing, as many have said in the thread so far. Unnecessary die rolling and gating the story/fun certainly can fall into the category of mistakes that some (many? most?) DMs have made at one time or another (I know I've certainly done both of these in the past). Easily remedied for future sessions with some introspection by the new DM and/or with some online or in-person advice. Of course, the rolling-dice-a-lot thing may actually be a feature and not a bug if the "Rolling With It" approach to play is followed (2014 DMG p236) - so potentially that is a preference and not a mistake at all.

Telling the entire table what their characters believe and think about a potential triggering encounter, however... that needs to be addressed if the group is going to stay together, IMO.

I'd hope that a gentle, between-session conversation with an experienced DM would be acceptable and appreciated at this point.

Zardnaar · Wednesday at 5:46 AM

I would just leave tbh.

DMs doing stupid rules changed at will sucks the fun out of a game. Games probably gonna crater anyway. RTFR basically.

Changing rules are fine ad Hoc eh I'll pass.

Retreater · Wednesday at 1:13 PM

I think I'm coming to the realization that I just need to start over and find a new group with fresh blood. Where we can play systems that are more my speed.
This particular group, it's weekly. I should probably scale it back. Since we do like each other, maybe we can do boardgames biweekly or monthly?

DEFCON 1 · Wednesday at 3:48 PM

Retreater said:
I think I'm coming to the realization that I just need to start over and find a new group with fresh blood. Where we can play systems that are more my speed.
This particular group, it's weekly. I should probably scale it back. Since we do like each other, maybe we can do boardgames biweekly or monthly?

Haven't you played or run like twelve different games for this group or various members of this group with other players coming in and out for years now? And you never leave because your wife won't let you? That's what you said several games ago, that she is a power-gamer and that she keeps goading you into running things for her even though its not how you prefer to play? What has changed now that makes you think you can start over with a new group that will not play in the manner your wife wants?

Retreater · Wednesday at 8:03 PM

DEFCON 1 said:
Haven't you played or run like twelve different games for this group or various members of this group with other players coming in and out for years now? And you never leave because your wife won't let you? That's what you said several games ago, that she is a power-gamer and that she keeps goading you into running things for her even though its not how you prefer to play? What has changed now that makes you think you can start over with a new group that will not play in the manner your wife wants?

I have played (and DMed) games that included my wife that were okay. My hope is that surrounding the group with players who actively want to participate and learn the system might be what's needed.

pukunui · Wednesday at 8:52 PM

Retreater said:
I have played (and DMed) games that included my wife that were okay. My hope is that surrounding the group with players who actively want to participate and learn the system might be what's needed.

So not really “starting over” so much as adding new players to the existing group?

i know it’ll be awkward since your wife is an active gamer too, but I strongly recommend actually starting fresh with a wholly new group. Don’t include any of the existing group. You need a clean break, and you don’t want to deal with any gatekeeping or hurt feelings around changing group dynamics.

haakon1 · Wednesday at 9:09 PM

Retreater said:
“I know you have an ability to find your way around a town and you need to find addresses to deliver letters

Addresses? In a medieval city? That’s what I would be stuck on.

Postal addresses have barely (or not) reached some parts of the current world. If you have 123 Main Street, Baldur’s Gate, BG3-SW2, it breaks immersion for me.

I suppose if it’s “two doors down from the tooth puller on the alley of the pub with the sign of the Orc’s Head”, then cool.

Reminds me of the Knowledge in London. Even with formal addresses and Royal Mail for centuries, black cab drivers had to memorize the streets, pubs, hotels, and other destinations to get their license. So much memorization their brains were studied for how it impacted them.

Interesting Skill challenge.

DEFCON 1 · Wednesday at 11:05 PM

Retreater said:
I have played (and DMed) games that included my wife that were okay. My hope is that surrounding the group with players who actively want to participate and learn the system might be what's needed.

I agree with @pukunui ... if you can get a whole new group together that doesn't include your wife or your neighbor or the teenagers you've been stuck running for in the past... maybe you will finally achieve a game state that makes you truly happy. You've been stuck catering to other people rather than catering to yourself for way too long.

D&D General How Do I Help Mentor a GM Making Rookie Mistakes?

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